Newbie GURPS GM Seeking Advice - Page 4

whswhs · 12-21-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8th Orbital Army

I challenge the SJG forums to explain (for the benefit of NMatuzic and any other new players and GM's who might be reading) why this is a bad character build. Not just vague "balanced character" type warnings, but concrete examples of why this character would be an un-fun disaster to play.

Can we do it? Or is this a valid Fire-ballin', Major-healin', Lager-brewin' build?

Well, to start with, what kind of god offers a list that includes those particular spells? The deal with divine magic is that (a) you get to ignore prerequisite spells, but (b) you don't have unlimited choice of the entire spell list, but only the particular spells that the GM decided were a logical fit to that particular god's domain. Who is this guy worshiping, the God of Munchkins? Those five spells make no sense as making up the domain of a god of anything I can think of. It really looks as if the GM just said, "OK, fine, tell me what god you worship and what spells they provide"—and that's an abdication of the GM's responsibility to require characters to fit a halfway sensible narrative.

Bill Stoddard

Hannes665 · 12-22-2010, 12:29 AM

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Originally Posted by Hannes665

ST: 7 DX: 9 IQ: 17 HT: 15
Ads: Magery 0 Magery +4 Clerical spells, Luck 15 pt
Disads: Bad Temper on 6 or less, Alcoholic, Honesty on 6 or less, Gluttony on 6 or less.
Skills: Brewery 21, Innate Attack Fireball 22, Staff 18, Theology 20.
Spells: Major Healing 25 Fireball 20 Monks Banquet 24 Continual Light 20 Invisibility 25.

That was it. That is the whole character. Most of his points went into 2 DX based skills and very few spells. And of course his disads made him almost unplayable.

To be fair and honest the GM did send the player away to either build a new PC or radically change this one. He had been shown few normal PC´s as a example and offered a character build by the GM but he refused. He newer came back. If you want to see a "normal" PC for that campaign there is a link in my signature.

Hannes665 · 12-22-2010, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, to start with, what kind of god offers a list that includes those particular spells? The deal with divine magic is that (a) you get to ignore prerequisite spells, but (b) you don't have unlimited choice of the entire spell list, but only the particular spells that the GM decided were a logical fit to that particular god's domain. Who is this guy worshiping, the God of Munchkins? Those five spells make no sense as making up the domain of a god of anything I can think of. It really looks as if the GM just said, "OK, fine, tell me what god you worship and what spells they provide"—and that's an abdication of the GM's responsibility to require characters to fit a halfway sensible narrative.

Bill Stoddard

Well the GM DID not approve this PC, he was build with out any contact with the GM except "I want to build a staff fighting beer drinking Monk". And the Gm though he would get a Friar Tuck type not a Priest of Invisible God of Banquets and Cooking.

simply Nathan · 12-22-2010, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whswhs

Well, to start with, what kind of god offers a list that includes those particular spells? The deal with divine magic is that (a) you get to ignore prerequisite spells, but (b) you don't have unlimited choice of the entire spell list, but only the particular spells that the GM decided were a logical fit to that particular god's domain. Who is this guy worshiping, the God of Munchkins?

I had one that only granted Minor/Major Healing, Fireball/Explosive Fireball, Continual Light, and Sleep/Mass Sleep. His weapons were the rapier, kusarigama, and boomerang.
He was the god of "cliches", though "JRPG Tropes" is what I would have called him if I knew the term at the time.
Of course, he was more of a character concept than anything else, as I have a built-in aversion to clerical magic.

Stripe · 12-22-2010, 04:16 AM

Here's a simple 8"x8" arena battle map I drew up tonight real quick (hand-drawn using GIMP) with 1" printed hexes, the correct scale for GURPS: http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/9537/gurpsarena.jpg

Print it with no margins (not margins set to 0) for the correct scale.

Here's a real quick, simple example of combat using only the Basic Set and my arena:

Jace the Ace
Attributes: ST 12 [20]; DX 13 [60]; IQ 10 [0]; HT 12 [20].
Secondary Characteristics: Damage 1d-1/1d+2; BL 29 lbs.; HP 12 [0]; Will 10 [0]; Per 10 [0]; FP 12 [0]; Basic Speed 7 [15]; Basic Move 7 [0].
Dodge 10 (12); Parry 10 (12); Block 10 (12).
Advantages: None.
Disadvantages: None.
Skills: Shield (DX/E)-14 [2]; Shortsword (DX/A)-14 [4].
Equipment:Medium Shield (DB 2); Shortsword (1d+2 cut/1d-1 imp); Leather Armor on all locations (DR2).

Vs.

Baracus the Brute
Attributes: ST 14 [40]; DX 12 [40]; IQ 8 [-40]; HT 12 [20].
Secondary Characteristics: Damage 1d/2d; BL 39 lbs.; HP 14 [0]; Will 8 [0]; Per 10 [10]; FP 12 [0]; Basic Speed 6.00 [0]; Basic Move 6 [0].
Dodge 10; Parry 11.
Advantages: Combat Reflexes [5]; Fit [5].
Disdvantages: None.
Skills: Two-Handed Axe/Mace (DX/A)-14 [8].
Equipment: Great Axe (2d+3 cut).

Jace and Baracus both duck under the portcullis, their weapons and equipment ready. Jace is in E-1; Baracus is in E-8. The combat begins as the iron gates slam closed behind them.

Round 1:

Jace has the higher Basic Speed so he goes first ("Turn Sequence," p. B363).

He takes one look at the towering Baracus and decides he doesn't want to charge right into battle with the mountain.

Instead, he chooses to study his adversary and takes the Evaluate maneuver (p. B364). This ends his turn.

Baracus isn't so prudent. Instead, he charges forward, roaring and swinging his huge axe above his head. He takes the Move and Attack maneuver (p. B365) allowing him to move forward 6 hexes (his Move score) and swing his Great Axe. Since his great axe has a reach of 1 or 2 (see "Reach," p. B269), and he has it readied for a reach of 2, he stops after five hexes of movement and swings with all his might. Baracus is on hex E-3 and there is one empty hex between Jace and he.

However, since he took the Move and Attack maneuver: "he has a flat -4 to skill, and his adjusted skill cannot exceed 9." Skill 14 - 4 = 10, so his skill is 9 since it can't be above 9.

Baracus makes his attack roll (see "Attacking," p.B369) and rolls three, six-sided dice. Each one shows a three on it's face for a total of 9. Since he rolled a 9 and his adjusted skill is 9, that's good enough to hit.

Jace must now defend (see "Defending," p. 374). He can chose to Block, Parry or Dodge. Since he has a medium shield and it is providing a Defense Bonus (DB) of 2 (see Shields and Defense Bonus," p. B374) all of his Active Defense scores are the same: 10 + 2 = 12. DB increases all Active Defenses, not just Block.

Since he'd rather not parry a heavy weapon (see "Parrying Heavy Weapons," p. B376), he chooses to block with his shield and rolls against that skill. He rolls a 10 which is less than his block score of 12, so it's successful.

Baracus' axe glances off Jace's shield with a loud chop.

Unfortunately for Big B, this means two things. One, he didn't hit Jace and his turn is over. Two, since he's using a weapon with the “‡” mark under its ST statistic, it becomes unready after he attacks with it. He won't be able to attack with it on his next turn! The greataxe puts him at a disadvantage in this one-on-one duel.

Round 2:

Jace sees his opportunity and attacks. Since he has a weapon with a Reach of 1 and there is an empty space between them, Jace must take one step to go one hex forward. That's okay because the Attack maneuver (B365) allows him to take one step.

But, remember that Evaluate maneuver he took on his last turn? That gives him a +1 to skill to attack this turn. Jace thrusts his shortsword toward Baracus' torso. He makes his attack roll against his shortsword skill of 14 + 1 = 15 and rolls a 12. That's good enough to hit!

Now, Baracus must defend. He can't parry with his axe because it's still unready from him swinging it on his last turn. He can't block because he doesn't have a shield. He must Dodge.

Baracus' Dodge score would be a 9 (Move of 6 + 3 = 9), but he has the Combat Reflexes Advantage which gives him a +1 to all Active Defenses.

Baracus rolls an 11. A failure! That means Jace hit!

Jace rolls his damage for a thrusting attack. For someone with ST 12 and a shortsowrd, that's 1d-1 impaling. He rolls one, six-sided die and it shows a 4. Since it's 1d-1, that would result in a roll of 3.

But, it's impaling damage, and any impaling damage that penetrates armor does twice the amount rolled. See Wounding Modifiers and Injury (p. B379). That's a total of 6 damage!

Blood gushes out of the stab wound in his side of Baracus' stomach and spills onto the sand. The mighty warrior growls in pain and anger.

This ends Jace's turn.

Baracus must ready his axe if he wishes to attack with it again. He decides to take the Ready maneuver (B366) and hefts his axe above his shoulder.

Note: If he could have attacked, Baracus would have been at -4 to skill due to injury. Whenever you suffer injury, reduce your DX and IQ by the number of HP you lost – to a maximum penalty of -4, regardless of your injuries – on your next turn only (see "Shock," p. B419).

This ends Baracus' turn. His axe is ready.

Round 3

Jace decides to go for the kill. He stabs again, this time straight for his opponent's heart. The heart counts as "Vitals," which is -3 to skill to target. See Hit Location (p. 398).

Jace rolls against his modified skill of 14 - 3 = 11 and rolls a 9. That's good enough to hit!

Baracus has a Parry of 11, which is higher than his dodge of 10 -- but if he parries his greataxe will become unready and he won't be able to use it to attack on his turn! So, he chooses to Dodge.

However, not only does he choose to Dodge, he chooses to Dodge and Retreat. See "Active Defense Options," p. B 377. Adding the retreat option to a dodge gives him a +3 to his dodge score. There's almost no reason not to add a retreat option to an active defense in this case unless you cannot back up (against wall, a ledge or lava pit, etc.).

So, Big B steps back to E-4 and rolls against 10 + 3 = 13 and rolls an 11. Good thing he added that retreat. He would have failed otherwise and Jace's sword would have been sticking out of his chest.

Jace has the option to follow Baracus and does so. He moves to E-3. You always have the option of following a retreating opponent and normally will wish to do so.

Now, it's Baracus' turn. Since his greataxe has a reach of "1,2*" and he has it readied for Reach 2, Baracus must step back one hex to E-5 and swing. Again, taking one step in any direction is allowed with the Attack maneuver.

Baracus doesn't specify a hit location. Page B398 says, "If you don’t specify a hit location, you are attacking the torso."

Baracus rolls a 14, which is just barely good enough to hit.

Jace decides to be the one to back up this time. He decides to take a retreating Block. Retreating while blocking (or parrying) adds +1 to the active defense score instead of the +3 to a retreating dodge score. He rolls a 10 against Skill 10 + Shield DB 2 + 1 retreat = 13.

Again, Baracus' axe slides off Jace's shield and he backs away from the giant. Baracus follows him. Baracus is on E-3 and Jace is on E-1, back against the now-closed portcullis.

He's in a sorry state. Down on hit points and his axe is unready again.

Stripe · 12-22-2010, 04:17 AM

Round 4:

Again, Jace springs forward to E-2, slashing his sword at Baracus' neck. The neck is -5 to skill to target, but a cutting attack to the neck does a lot of damage. Jace needs a 9 or less (skill 14 - 5 for neck = 9). Jace's attack roll is good; he rolls an 8.

Baracus takes a retreating dodge again, jumping back to E-4. But, he rolls a 14! Failure!

Cutting blows to the neck give a wounding multiplier of x2 instead of x1.5. Baracus is probably going to be in trouble.

Jace's swing damage is 2d and with his shortsword, it's 2d cut.

He rolls a 12 on the dice, and since Baracus isn't wearing armor, that's a gory 24 points of damage! This is what's called a "major wound." A major wound is any single injury of greater than 1/2 your HP. See "Major Wounds," p. 420. Bookmark page 420 in fact as it is referenced often.

Whenever you suffer a major wound, you must make an immediate HT roll to avoid knockdown and stunning. On a failure, you’re stunned. You fall down and can't do anything until you make an IQ roll on your turn. Then, after that turn, you can start taking actions again. You can take active defenses until then, but they are at -4 and you can't retreat.

So, it's a pretty big deal.

What's even worse is that Baracus is at -18 HP. That's in really bad shape, if not dead. See p. 419 for all the basic rules on hit point levels. This would make a good bookmark as well.

Since Big B has Less than 1/3 his HP, his Move and Dodge are halved. Since he's at less than 1 hit points, he is in immediate danger of collapse. He must make a HT roll at the start of his next turn at -1 per full multiple of HP below zero (he's at -18 so that's one multiple of 12). Failure means he'll fall unconscious. Success means he can act normally, but must roll again every turn to continues fighting. Yikes!

We're not done yet, folks. Oh, no.

Since Baracus is at less than -1xHp (i.e., less that -12), he make an immediate HT roll... or die.

That's right. they've been fighting for only four seconds and big, mean, tough Baracus has only been hit twice and there's a chance he'll be dead on the second hit. Just goes to show, no matter how tough you are, you get hit square in the neck with a full-force blow from a sword, chances are, you're dead.

Baracus is a tough mother, though. Even at He rolls an 8 against his modified HT of 11 (12 - 1 for HP level = 11) to remain alive. He still has to make an immediate HT roll to avoid knockdown and stunning, though. He rolls an 9 for that.

Blood fountains from his neck and spills everywhere, but he manages to remain standing.

Now it's Baracus' turn. Since it's the start of his turn and he's at less than 1 HP, he has to make a HT roll (at -1 for being below -12 HP) or collapse. He makes it on the dot with an 11. He barely manages to hold on.

He's at -4 to attack from the shock of injury.

To offset this, Baracus bravely steps back to E-4 and takes an All-out-Attack (Determined) maneuver (p. 365). The maneuver gives him a +4 to skill to hit, but he'll get no active defenses until his next turn. All Jace has to do is make his attack roll and Baracus is hit. But, he's got to survive Baracus' greataxe first!

Baracus rolls against his modified skill of 14 - 4 shock + 4 determined = 14. He targets a random location (see "Random Hit Location," p. B400) and rolls a lucky 7.

Jace attempts a retreating block and backs to E-1 and Baracus follows him (moving to E-3). Jace rolls a 14! It's Baracus' turn to roll damage.

But first, he has to roll on the Hit Location Table (p. 552) to see where his blow landed. He rolls an 8: right arm.

He then rolls a tremendous 2d+3 cutting damage and gets a 12 total.

Now, Jace is wearing leather armor on his right arm and it has a DR of 2. DR subtracts from basic damage. That means Jace takes 12 - 2 for DR = 10 points of damage, x1.5 for it being cutting damage for a total of 15 points of injury!

However, injury over HP/2 cripples an arm. All additional damage is lost. Since Jace has 12 HP, that means any damage over 7 is lost.

It's way worse than that for Jace, though. If injury to a body part before applying the above limit was at least twice what was needed to cripple it, the body part is not just crippled but destroyed. A cutting attack or explosion severs a limb. See "Dismemberment," p. B421.

Jace's arm is lopped clean off leaving only a blood-squirting stump! He didn't just drop his sword, he lost his right arm!

Any crippling injury is a major wound. Jace must make an immediate roll against HT to avoid knockdown and stunning. He rolls a 13 and fails.

Jace drops to the floor, blood pouring out of his stump.

Victorious, Baracus drops his axe and sinks to his knees clutching his neck. In moments, he too will join Jace in the afterlife as his precious lifeblood pumps at at a rate of 1 HP per minute (see "Bleeing," p. 420). He'll roll against death at each multiple of 12. That means he has about 6 minutes before death is likely to take him.

Hope you enjoyed this combat example and the battle map!

Witchking · 12-22-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8th Orbital Army

I challenge the SJG forums to explain (for the benefit of NMatuzic and any other new players and GM's who might be reading) why this is a bad character build. Not just vague "balanced character" type warnings, but concrete examples of why this character would be an un-fun disaster to play.
"

Well here is a real simple one...DX 9.

You are in combat, someone kills a bad guy...he falls...his dead body now takes up 2 hexs...AND REQUIRES A DX ROLL TO CROSS. You can multiply that by the number of baddies. By round 2-3 of most fights I end up charting the snake path to avoid having to make DX rolls. Hell even with a DX of 13 my current PC has tripped a time or two. Our current mage went DX 10 and even that is a roller coaster ride. Dead Bodies, Crossing between ships in combat, moving down a ledge at anything more than 1/hex per round, etc, etc, etc. All those DX rolls become a 50/50 crap shoot (at DX 10)... god forbid if the GM inficts a roll with a negative modifier. Our mage is a temporal/spatial specialist and has cast spells and used FP (Flight/Levitate) just to avoid making a DX roll.

Of all of the Primary Stats in a Fantasy Game I would never buy down DX, followed closely by HT (hidey ho black death).

*** EDIT...note for newbies...in GURPS getting to your feet is a two round action...round 1 get to knees/crouch...round 2 get to your feet (unless you have Acrobatics and/or the Snapstand skill then a success roll knocks it down to 1 round). That's it...that is all you are doing. No attacking no real moving while you are doing it If you try fighting from the prone you really cannot move and are fighting at hefty penalties (tho for a spell caster offense would do ok). I have seen a judoka more then pull his weight in combat just by dumping enemies off their feet and neutralizing 2-3 enemies **forever**

whswhs · 12-22-2010, 10:14 AM

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