Newbie GURPS GM Seeking Advice

[NMatuzic]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Don't do this, though, with their built characters.

Yep, got that. My guess was what you also mentioned- that by playing in a combat or two, they'll figure out some stuff that they'll want their own character to do from their experience in the test run.

The solitaire run is a very nice tip, though. Gives me something to do at work one night when on a boring night shift!

[Gef]

Originally Posted by NMatuzic

...they'll avoid the min/maxing path...

I encourage my players to design their characters efficiently. In fact, I look them over and suggest ways they can do so, like, you've got a ton of points sunk into half a dozen skills that are central to your concept, and a rep for being good at them, why don't you consolidate that into a talent, which includes a reaction bonus from the same folks, and free up some points? I don't want any confusion between what the rules allow and what the GM is okay with; they should be the same thing, and I'll make a houserule against anything I don't like, with an in-campaign justification where possible. When I start something new, however, I make it clear to players that things are in flux, and that some houserules may be coming down the pike as I finetune the setting, so there are no hard feelings later.

I once had a player in fantasy cyberpunk campaign like Shadowrun build a wizard (named Vecna) with a creepy bionic eye and arm. Other players noted that he seemed extremely capable as a wizard and also had extremely capable cyberware. Where did he get the points? From limtations, of course. Certain situations could render both his magic and his cyber useless, but he felt no need to tell his cronies about his weaknesses! Did he "rape" the system, or power game, or min-max? I don't think so, because I as the GM new how the bad guys could trap him, and he knew I knew, which forced him to act at all times in a way to minimize the risk. I never trapped him, but given the way those limitations dictated his decisions, I can hardly say that they never came to bear, or call them free points.

A tip on designing races: Think of some exotic advantages that aren't exotic for them. For instance, even if most dwarves lack vibration sense, but some have it, just like some humans have lightning calculator.

GEF

[Gef]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Do a solitaire combat on your own first, so that you kind of know where the rules are.

Some of the rules are on Combat Cards, which you can download from Warehouse 23 and print for each player. -GEF

[Gef]

A word of encouragement: Most of the rules for the tactical combat system are much easier to do than to explain.

Here are some things to try:

1) Guy with a spear (reach 2) versus guy with a broadsword (reach 1). Tip: Have spear guy stop just out of range and Wait, declaring he will attack if sword guy closes.

2) Build a couple of equivalent knife-fighters, one with the technique Feint maxed out. Have him alternate Feints and real attacks while the other guy just attacks.

3) Two guys with shields and swords (reach 1). When first guy attacks, have second guy "retreat" sideways (reduce bonus for retreat by 1), to his attacker's non-shield side. Second guy gets his turn, he now steps to his foe's flank, completing a "run-around" attack. This gives -2 to the other guy's defense AND avoids the defense bonus of the shield. HOWEVER, the clever git who did this is now facing the wrong way, so he has to use a backstrike. That means he's at -2 to hit AND at -2 to his next defense.

Seriously, the last one is a great example of something easier to show than tell.

Play some matches between skill 12 cadets, skill 16 experts, and skill 20 masters. Remember that the cadets will make telegraphic attacks. Also remember that the system is at its best without weird stuff (magic, ultra-tech, cinematic skills) - master it before you add the fantasy elements.

Good luck and have fun.

GEF

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by Stripe

Basically, most suggest 150 points with a disadvatage limit (page 11 of Characters) at half that, or -75 points. That's what all my fantasy campaigns have been.

I cap the disads at -50, unless there's a good reason like a cool character concept that needs the extra points, regardless of the starting point total. With more, you either have a freak show or a bunch of disads you're usually ignoring, thus just giving free points.

[Rasputin]

Originally Posted by NMatuzic

The decision to use GURPS was made after some nice chat on another gaming forum, and I have been given copious amounts of "start small, add more as you go" types of tips. I have the core books, and will use Fantasy, Low Tech, Magic and Thaumatology (and maybe Martial Arts) as the campaign progresses. But for now, I'm thinking small, and thus just the core.

You can run a fantasy game with just the Basic Set and Magic, truth be told, though Fantasy is one of the best 4e supplements and can help out quite a bit. Thaumatology is handy if you have specific changes you want to make to the magic system and need to know how to do it. For a D&D-type game, you won't use much of Low-Tech at all. You're best off with Dungeon Fantasy for this game, using Treasure Tables for more gear. And Martial Arts ... another great book, but one you can utterly shun for this kind of game. It will just add complications. Ask someone to point you to a good summary of Telegraphic Attack for backstabbing; that's the only part of Martial Arts that you'll want for a first game.

So go with Magic and Fantasy. Keep it simple.

[NMatuzic]

Sorry, I should clarify that one of the main reasons for the switch to GURPS is that the more I read D&D, the more I disliked it. It felt too much like a MMORPG. I ended up going with GURPS because of its realism, something which I enjoy immensely when roleplaying.

Ok, realism, with some fantasy and cinematic elements thrown in =P

But when it all comes down to it, I'm not a big fan of simple hack n' slash, I want more depth than that.

The main reason I brought up D&D is that it's what I know, but it's not what I want to run. My goal is to run a Fantasy campaign in a semi-realistic manner, something I don't feel is possible with the other game, but definitely a realistic goal when running GURPS!

[Hannes665]

Regarding Mooks and other "low level" NPC´s and encounters I recommend keeping the primary attributes in the 9-11 category. That is to say in the average range. This still makes them dangerous to most 75-100 pt pc´s in Gurps but they don´t have Dodge 11+ or weapon skill at 15+ and dice out 2d++ of damage.

It was mentioned earlier that some players buy down the secondary attributes. We (my group) allow it for up to -4 for per and will and -3 for hp and fp and -1 in basic move and basic speed. It does not count against disad limits so it´s common for us to see a Wizard with IQ 15, Per 12 and Will 13 BUT we have learned that it does not skew the game as one would think since all of these stats are important.

Both Will and Per have also skills based on them, will is very important when it comes to avoiding mind spells and fright checks. Low Per can kill you in a dangerous game were you (the PC) needs to notice things and it helps to notice the archer firing the arrow at you 30 yards away if you want the option to dodge or block.

HP are worth their weight in gold in any combat heavy game since they go fast as soon as you start to get any damage. FP are necessary for anyone in a fight and wizards for spells, using FP to increase your damage or assist you in defending yourself.

Example of a NPC guard as I would write him and most if not all off NPC´s.

Generic Guard small city large township with some random ads.

ST: 10/10 thr 1d-2 sw 1d DX: 10 IQ: 9 HT:10/10 Dodge: 8 Move: 5 BS: 5 Will 10 Per 11 Parry B-8/S-9 +DB Block: 9+DB Armor DR 2 Torso, arms, legs, hands. DR 4 Head. Face: 0
Ads: Combat ref on 6 or less, High Pain Threshold on 4 or less.
Broadsword - 11 1d-2cr/1d+1cut Shield - 12 Spear -12 1H 1d imp/2H 1d+1imp Observation - 12 Local Law - 8 (+4 for basic regulations) Solider on 9 or less - 8+ 1d3. Crossbow 11 1d+2 Area Knowledge Local - 11.

Guard Captain Large Town or a small city or a Sgt.
ST: 11/11 thr 1d-1 sw 1d+1 DX: 11 IQ: 10 HT: 11/11 Dodge: 9 BS: 5.5 Move: 5 Will 11 Per 11 Parry 10 Block 10 DB: 2 Armor DR 4/2 Mail, Torso, arms, neck, head, DR 2 hands, legs and feet. Face 0
Ads: Combat Ref on 10 or less, HPT on 7 or less.
Broadsword -14 1d cr/1d+2 cut Shield - 13 Tactics - 9 Leadership - 9 +1d3 Local Law - 10 Area Knowledge Local 12


I usually write them up like this and then if there is a very special NPC I write him up, named and in little bit more detail but not that much. Easier that to create every character that you want your party to meet, that could take weeks.

[Hannes665]

I would recommend 100 pts -40 or -50 disads and quirks.

Just watch the PC creation carefully for someone that has never played or seen Gurps they tend to go overboard at their first character. Specially if they are used to DnD style games.

For example we had for one night a DnD player with our group that wanted to play a Priest/Monk with some divine spells.

He was something like this.

ST: 7 DX: 9 IQ: 17 HT: 15
Ads: Magery 0 Magery +4 Clerical spells, Luck 15 pt
Disads: Bad Temper on 6 or less, Alcoholic, Honesty on 6 or less, Gluttony on 6 or less.
Skills: Brewery 21, Innate Attack Fireball 22, Staff 18, Theology 20.
Spells: Major Healing 25 Fireball 20 Monks Banquet 24 Continual Light 20 Invisibility 25.


That was it. That is the whole character. Most of his points went into 2 DX based skills and very few spells. And of course his disads made him almost unplayable.

Gurps requires much more diversity that DnD. It´s not unusal for characters to have 15-40 skills and/or spells.

[8th Orbital Army]

Originally Posted by Hannes665

ST: 7 DX: 9 IQ: 17 HT: 15
Ads: Magery 0 Magery +4 Clerical spells, Luck 15 pt
Disads: Bad Temper on 6 or less, Alcoholic, Honesty on 6 or less, Gluttony on 6 or less.
Skills: Brewery 21, Innate Attack Fireball 22, Staff 18, Theology 20.
Spells: Major Healing 25 Fireball 20 Monks Banquet 24 Continual Light 20 Invisibility 25.

I challenge the SJG forums to explain (for the benefit of NMatuzic and any other new players and GM's who might be reading) why this is a bad character build. Not just vague "balanced character" type warnings, but concrete examples of why this character would be an un-fun disaster to play.

Can we do it? Or is this a valid Fire-ballin', Major-healin', Lager-brewin' build?



First thing I noticed was the ST7, DX9 combo. This character is begging to be grappled. He has no close combat skills and will never be able to break free if grabbed.



Second he has the Invisibility spell at 25, but no stealth skill, and no unusual background. In other words he lives in a world where people are known to turn invisible, and where people will be expecting such shennanigans:



Guard 1 (Klorglarg the Hateful): So..., I think YugThog the Despicable has been cheating at dominoes ever since he got here.

Guard 2 (Xindgorguth the Repulsive): You can't cheat at dominoes, you've just had a run of bad luck.

Guard 1 (Klorglarg the Hateful): But he ALWAYS wins, how can that be luck LOUD CLANG IN THE BACKGROUND What was that!?!"

Guard 2 (Xindgorguth the Repulsive): I don't see anything, it must be an invisible dude. Throw that sack of flour out there whle I activate my helm of Invisible Dude Seeing. Anyway, YugThog the Despicable, is a stand-up guy! He wouldn't cheat you..."