[Aliens]"...solitary giant predator caterpillars. Civilization wasn't easy for us"

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Dinadon

I'm inclined to go with no, if only because I can't find an animal template with it on that isn't mythological. I'm also fairly certain cat and dog kibble isn't fresh meat, despite both being carnivores. Anyway, it sounds more like they won't eat plants, not can't so it seems a little moot.

I'm not sure how to differentiate between carnivores, herbivores and omnivores. IIRC being vegetarian is a 5-point disadvantage. I'm an omnivore, and I like it: some days/weeks I can eat no/almost no meat, while others I can eat just meat/more than 70% meat; I usually stay somewhere in the middle, but I don't get uncomfortable or hungry either way. Having to eat meat every day is certainly less convenient than picking whatever diet presents itself. So if Restricted Diet as written is too much, what is okay?

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Only if their minds are capable of it. Just because you can coordinate lots of limbs doesn't mean you think about two things at once. It's the latter that I feel is more important inside a control room.

First, I wasn't asking about eliminating penalties completely. Second, what use then is there from extra limbs except for having spares (which would probably be worth the cost as Alternate Abilities)?

Yes, I know that as trappers they had all the benefit in the world from the +2 per extra limb to a grapple.

Originally Posted by Dinadon

I wouldn't say spawning is right out. If the young aren't seen as food or interlopers, then it's possible for them to hang around an adult.

Maybe, but would they be smart enough to learn stuff while staying non-interlopers?

Originally Posted by Dinadon

As for eggs vs live, being pregnant isn't easy on the mother and makes it vulnerable. Eggs simply mean that there is a location the mother protects, the mother herself isn't really weakened for any significant length of time.

Okay, so eggs get even more of a reason for them to be territorial. And there's always the possibility of making egg-carrying an option (as in, done when needed, but not otherwise).

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Bears are solitary, K-strategy and don't form pair-bonding. The mother raises the cubs on her own. Solitary big cats are probably another good place to look.

Thanks.

Originally Posted by Dinadon

A faceted eye gives you more receptors, letting you notice small changes easily. Some form of Enhanced Time Sense might be plausible at the extreme.

Ah, I remember helping someone represent better visual motion detection through Vibration Sense (Vision-based 0%), i.e. rolling at +SRT movement bonus and +SM for motion detection (in addition to the normal Vision check).

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Acute Vision would be the minimum. If these are like insect eyes, Ultravision might be appropriate as I think insects can see further at that end. Realistic Infravision requires dedicated senses for the task, but targets that can be picked out from the background temperature is an important necessity.

Ultravision is very ambiguous in GURPS: some say it works wrong, some say it's cool for seeing underwater, some say it doesn't work underwater etc. As for Infravision, at least they won't have the problem of their eyes being too small for it. Not sure if Infravision makes sense in a jungle though - is the temperature difference big enough?

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

So if Restricted Diet as written is too much, what is okay?

A quirk at most I'd say.

First, I wasn't asking about eliminating penalties completely. Second, what use then is there from extra limbs except for having spares (which would probably be worth the cost as Alternate Abilities)?

Yes, I know that as trappers they had all the benefit in the world from the +2 per extra limb to a grapple.

Unfortunately the best examples of multiple limbs are cephalopods, and they use their extra arms for just that. More relevant creatures are monkeys. They use their tail as an extra limb, making climbing easier. The size of the creature means weight is an issue. Lots of limbs means you can distribute your weight across more, and thus lighter, branches. However good limb control isn't really a higher brain function, and it's higher brain functions that I feel are important for being good at multiple things at once. Given these are vision based I would put that as the limiter.

Maybe, but would they be smart enough to learn stuff while staying non-interlopers?

Interloper, in this case, means being seen as a rival for the territory. Juveniles shouldn't be big enough for this to be issue, assuming they even look similar. Also you need somehow to have both lateral and downwards knowledge propagation. Solitary only lends itself to downwards, but I think you need both for a society to grow and develop.

Not sure if Infravision makes sense in a jungle though - is the temperature difference big enough?

Snakes seem to do fine, but you'd have to ask an expert if they actually make significant use of their heat sense. The main issue is if there is prey that give off enough heat.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Dinadon

A quirk at most I'd say.

Then why are vegetarians/herbivores a bigger deal?

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Unfortunately the best examples of multiple limbs are cephalopods, and they use their extra arms for just that. More relevant creatures are monkeys. They use their tail as an extra limb, making climbing easier. The size of the creature means weight is an issue. Lots of limbs means you can distribute your weight across more, and thus lighter, branches. However good limb control isn't really a higher brain function, and it's higher brain functions that I feel are important for being good at multiple things at once. Given these are vision based I would put that as the limiter.

So . . . Enhanced Tracking? Because CM is overkill.

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Interloper, in this case, means being seen as a rival for the territory. Juveniles shouldn't be big enough for this to be issue, assuming they even look similar. Also you need somehow to have both lateral and downwards knowledge propagation. Solitary only lends itself to downwards, but I think you need both for a society to grow and develop.

Make no mistake, the quote in the title is very serious. Their ascension to civilization should be difficult. Come to think of it, I wonder how would a society look if most lateral exchange of knowledge was essentially pillow talk.

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Then why are vegetarians/herbivores a bigger deal?

Space only mentions Restricted Diet with regards to specialised gatherers, not even gathers in general let alone all herbivores. The only instance I can find of Restricted Diet(Herbivore) is the stallion in DF5, and the Basic Set horses don't have it. In short there just aren't enough examples of living creatures with restricted diet to make it seem worthwhile. Perhaps start another, more general, topic on this?

So . . . Enhanced Tracking? Because CM is overkill.

That's what I was thinking.

EDIT: Or maybe just a multitasking talent, built along similar lines to the jack-of-trades one built for DF.

Make no mistake, the quote in the title is very serious. Their ascension to civilization should be difficult. Come to think of it, I wonder how would a society look if most lateral exchange of knowledge was essentially pillow talk.

Or as part of a pulling strategy.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Space only mentions Restricted Diet with regards to specialised gatherers, not even gathers in general let alone all herbivores. The only instance I can find of Restricted Diet(Herbivore) is the stallion in DF5, and the Basic Set horses don't have it. In short there just aren't enough examples of living creatures with restricted diet to make it seem worthwhile. Perhaps start another, more general, topic on this?

Originally Posted by B161

Minor Vow: Silence during daylight
hours; vegetarianism; chastity (yes, for
game purposes, this is minor). -5
points.

That's a Vow. I suppose that actual inability to consume 'wrong' food is more serious than not wanting to.

Originally Posted by Dinadon

That's what I was thinking.

EDIT: Or maybe just a multitasking talent, built along similar lines to the jack-of-trades one built for DF.

I wouldn't go as far as a Talent. But right now, I feel that extra arms are not the best deal unless they're bought as 1/5th alternatives.

Hmm.

Originally Posted by B53

You can use extra arms freely for
multiple noncombat tasks. For
instance, with three arms, you could
perform a one-handed task (e.g., use a
computer mouse) and a two-handed
task (e.g., type) simultaneously. You
need Enhanced Tracking (p. 53) to
perform tasks that require attention to
events in more than one place at a
time, however.

I wonder what counts as needing attentions in more than one place at a time. I guess if mousing and keyboarding at the same time doesn't count, then shooting the same enemy you're trying to outmanoeuvre shouldn't count either. What's you opinion?

Originally Posted by Dinadon

Or as part of a pulling strategy.

The only way I can interpret that doesn't seem to make much sense. Could you elaborate?

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Hmm.
I wonder what counts as needing attentions in more than one place at a time. I guess if mousing and keyboarding at the same time doesn't count, then shooting the same enemy you're trying to outmanoeuvre shouldn't count either. What's you opinion?

Those aren't actually equivalent, your trying to compare input devices to tasks. Find a game that uses both WASD and arrow keys for different task at the same time and see how well you do. I know they're out there, I've played a few. I've also played X3, and that game leads me to belief performing both tasks is non-trivial, even though I've only played with the game's targeting assists on.

The only way I can interpret that doesn't seem to make much sense. Could you elaborate?

Pulling, a farily vernacular term, related to the cheesy chat-up line "get your coat love, you've pulled", to do with courting strategies.

[vicky_molokh]

Don't know about arrow keys and WASD, but I clearly remember driving a car in Terminator: Future Shock. The arrows were for driving, while the mouse was for controlling the weapon, which acted pretty much like an instant-response tank turret. At first it was confused, me being used to turn with the mouse and strafe with the keys. Now I turned the car with the keys, and turned the independent turret with the mouse. I think there's a mission or two in Half Life with similar controls. In some ways this is easier than shooting while somebody ELSE does the steering. Then there's the issue of how piloting using Command Task results in a lower penalty when combined with another Command Task. IOW, I'm not sure.

Ah, pulling as in 'pick-up lines'. Awesome idea. That actually makes the Ur-Quan somewhat predisposed towards natural selection of geeks in favor of jocks. :)

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Then why are vegetarians/herbivores a bigger deal?

Because it's assumed that they'll be in a society where being served meat is standard. The Ur-Quan live in their own society, and they're all rich.

[Darekun]

Re Restricted Diet, I usually figure being an obligate carnivore, gatherer, or grazer is worth -10, and apply Substitution for non-obligate cases.

However, I usually use multispecies cultures, so it affects the ability for PCs to swap rations, and can complicate using Survival to live off the land. When monospecies cultures are the norm, it's probably entirely out, leaving Increased Life Support if anything.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Darekun

Re Restricted Diet, I usually figure being an obligate carnivore, gatherer, or grazer is worth -10, and apply Substitution for non-obligate cases.
....

Real world obligate carnivores still eat some plants. I had a cat that loved to get into my prunes and pie crust.

Grazers should probably not get restricted diet as it's very common. Though they should get slow eater from the sheer volume needed.