Blocking attacks against another character.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by zylosan

I was kind of operating from the assumption that intercepting the attack allowed the blocking/parrying etc to become the target of the attack. Not to parry the attack and negate any successful strike.

I'm not sure what you mean. Jumping into an attack meant for someone else is Sacrificial Dodge. Why would you parry or block an attack into yourself? Why would it ever be preferable to just deflecting the blow in the first place?

Originally Posted by Neroange

can you site your source book and page please.
This sound like a breakdown in the rule system going from 3e to 4e. One of the unique aspects of GURPS is it use of defaults, except for double defaults and extremely complex and SUBTLE skills/actions, if you can think of it you can try it.

Like I said earlier PU:2 p. 7 has both perks. Shield Wall Training is on MA page 51 but is identical to the write-up in PU:2.

[Neroange]

So I got PU 2, and became a little disturbed but I'll bring that up in a new thread.
As pertains to this one, sacrificial parry and shield-wall training has written do not state that others can't try to do them, it also fails to mention what penalties are involved. Penalties others would have and what penalties these remove.

More importantly these are NOT perks, they are techniques (as are many of the combat perks). Anything you can TRAIN in (shield-wall training), or that require specialization are Skills or sub-skills (task or techniques). that's the disturbing part.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Neroange

More importantly these are NOT perks, they are techniques (as are many of the combat perks). Anything you can TRAIN in (shield-wall training), or that require specialization are Skills or sub-skills (task or techniques). that's the disturbing part.

Why can't you train a perk? Often some particular trained response would be vastly overpriced as a technique. Compare the Basic Set version of Off-Hand Weapons Training with the Martial Arts version.

[Neroange]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why can't you train a perk? Often some particular trained response would be vastly overpriced as a technique. Compare the Basic Set version of Off-Hand Weapons Training with the Martial Arts version.

That there's what you call a RULES HOLE!
I don't have MA but did get PU2, and I almost missed it, since it is not listed as combat perk, but a skill perk, and is not called Off-Hand Weapons Training, but called Off-Hand Training. It also refers you to p. B14, not p. B232.
It should apply only to non-combat skills.
And again it is a learned skill something you can pick up during a campaign, as a general rule perks should chosen a character creation.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Neroange

That there's what you call a RULES HOLE!
I don't have MA but did get PU2, and I almost missed it, since it is not listed as combat perk, but a skill perk, and is not called Off-Hand Weapons Training, but called Off-Hand Training. It also refers you to p. B14, not p. B232.
It should apply only to non-combat skills.

No, it's fully intended that it applies to combat skills. The technique from the Basic Set is deprecated in favor of the perk.

Originally Posted by Neroange

And again it is a learned skill something you can pick up during a campaign, as a general rule perks should chosen a character creation.

Perks not being acquired after character creation is not any sort of established rule.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Neroange

That there's what you call a RULES HOLE!
I don't have MA but did get PU2, and I almost missed it, since it is not listed as combat perk, but a skill perk, and is not called Off-Hand Weapons Training, but called Off-Hand Training.

It costs 4 points to buy off the penalty for a single skill with the technique version. Ambidexterity costs only a single point more, and applies to all skills.

It should apply only to non-combat skills.

Why?

And again it is a learned skill something you can pick up during a campaign, as a general rule perks should chosen a character creation.

Why? You can't one day decide to pack a bug-out bag and leave it by the door? Or get a dog? Or hone your awesome mental command of the EM spectrum to let you produce a flashlight effect?

It also refers you to p. B14, not p. B232.

errata@sjgames.com

[Neroange]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

No, it's fully intended that it applies to combat skills. The technique from the Basic Set is deprecated in favor of the perk.

G is for generic, there is no errata for this change for basic set, MA is a melee combat sourcebook, (not a World Sourcebook) so the rules from one source to another should by consistent.

[/QUOTE]Perks not being acquired after character creation is not any sort of established rule.[/QUOTE]

Define: any sort of established= if the GM permits p. B32. Where as the GM must approve all changes to characters the book does not bother to state that for skills

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Neroange

G is for generic, there is no errata for this change for basic set, MA is a melee combat sourcebook, (not a World Sourcebook) so the rules from one source to another should by consistent.

That's not how it works. The rules of rules precedence, such as they are, don't cut that way.

Originally Posted by Neroange

Define: any sort of established= if the GM permits p. B32. Where as the GM must approve all changes to characters the book does not bother to state that for skills

This is true as best I can tell, but doesn't seem at all significant.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Neroange

Define: any sort of established= if the GM permits p. B32. Where as the GM must approve all changes to characters the book does not bother to state that for skills

Actually it does.

Originally Posted by Basic 292

You can only spend character
points to improve skills or techniques
that, in the GM’s opinion, saw significant
use in the adventure during
which you earned the points.
...
You may only add a skill if you
attempted a default roll (see Quick
Learning Under Pressure, box) or if you
spent most of the adventure around
people who were constantly using the
skill.
...
In all cases, the GM has the final say.

[Neroange]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

It costs 4 points to buy off the penalty for a single skill with the technique version. Ambidexterity costs only a single point more, and applies to all skills.

I agree there is a point cost problem here.

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why?

the write-up says all defense roll, but do not mention attack rolls. See main-gauche p. B208

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Why? You can't one day decide to pack a bug-out bag and leave it by the door? Or get a dog? hone your awesome mental command of the EM spectrum to let you produce a flashlight effect

packed bag, is not an advantage or a skill, rolling to see if you packed a toothbrush is against IQ.
A dog is not an ally or a dependent, beware the cat ladies.
mental command of the EM spectrum (advantage, psi power),produce a flashlight effect skill