Rule Mixup?

[RobKamm]

On DF11:31 the Water Blaster water elemental has an attack with Double Knockback. In the text it says that:

Originally Posted by DF11

roll 6d as crushing damage, and determine knockback, then double the distance...

B104 says that Double Knockback:

Originally Posted by Basic Characters

lets a crushing or cutting attack inflect twice as much knockback as usual.

I'd always interpreted Basic to mean that with Double Knockback the damage was doubled (in the example of the water elemental 6dx2) and then Knockback applied. Have I been wrong all this time?

It makes a big difference in an upcoming game, my PCs are likely to attempt a lake crossing in a raft with a hostile water elemental trying to prevent them from getting across. If they build a small raft (HP 58 according to LT139, knockback threshold 56), and it gets hit by the blaster the maximum damage is 36 points - insufficient to cause a single hex of knockback. If the damage is doubled (as I had thought) then the maximum is 72 which could knock a raft about enough to force some control rolls.

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by RobKamm

I'd always interpreted Basic to mean that with Double Knockback the damage was doubled (in the example of the water elemental 6dx2) and then Knockback applied. Have I been wrong all this time?

No... I don't know what the "official ruling" is on this, but your ruling is surely the best one...

[Celjabba]

Gurps power p 101 seem to imply that doubling the distance is the standard way, and doubling the damage for knock-back calculation only is an alternate rule, especially useful for low damage attack.

power-up 1 - Imbuement suggest using double damage
df-9 summoners : double the distance

So, it seem both reading of the rule are used in various gurps book.

Either it is a feature of each individual power, to be decided at creation, or it is a rule mixup...

Hope this help


Celjabba

[RobKamm]

Thank you Celjabba, I have no idea why I didn't take a look at Powers to see if there was some discussion there. And CTRL-F is so easy to find on my keyboard.

In thinking about this some more it might be even easier to picture the Double Knockback (variant) as "Halve target Knockback Threshold." Thus illustrating the smoother knockback effect (1 hex increments more frequently, vs. 2 hex less frequently). It would also suggest the possibility of paralleling Armour Divisor for even more dramatic knockback effects.

[Bruno]

It's basically like the "convert dice + adds to more dice" optional rule: produces different results, but "close enough" for a game.

Some people like rolling lots of dice, some people can take for-ever to add up lots of dice and drive the other player crazy (I'm the last type ;).

But I'll note that the Imbuement ISN'T the enhancement. Embuements are obviously very closely related to their parent enhancements, but they can easily be tweaked to fit the specific environment.

[Celjabba]

Originally Posted by RobKamm

Thank you Celjabba, I have no idea why I didn't take a look at Powers to see if there was some discussion there. And CTRL-F is so easy to find on my keyboard.

just in case you did not know : ctrl-shift-f is ever more powerful: you can search (and navigate through results) in every 4e gurps book on your computer with one search. And its fast. faster than the simple search, in fact.

Celjabba

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

just in case you did not know : ctrl-shift-f is ever more powerful: you can search in every 4e gurps book on your computer with one search. And its fast. faster than the simple search, in fact.

Celjabba

Holy mackerel! I did not know that. You have increased my enjoyment of pdfs by an order of magnitude. Thanks greatly. :)

[RobKamm]

Originally Posted by Celjabba

just in case you did not know : ctrl-shift-f

I did. But then I forgot the shortcut and have been using the pull down menu to do it. My mouse and I thank you for the reminder.

[PK]

GURPS Powers, p. 101, "Double Knockback: To make this meaningful for low-damage attacks, double the basic damage of the attack, for knockback purposes only, instead of doubling yards of knockback."

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

GURPS Powers, p. 101, "Double Knockback: To make this meaningful for low-damage attacks, double the basic damage of the attack, for knockback purposes only, instead of doubling yards of knockback."

Any problems with allowing it for high damage attacks?