Perk Limit

[cmdicely]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Should combat (and style) perks count against the suggested perk limit on page 3 of Power-Ups 2 or are they additional?

Personally, I don't think most normal perks should be limited at all; limiting combat (and magical style) perks is a way of reinforcing the settiing by encouraging the use of styles (martial or magical).

I'm not sure what purpose a general perk limit serves.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Here's my take:

Interesting. It isn't however terribly clear, or there wouldn't be so many elbows in this thread.

Originally Posted by cmdicely

I'm not sure what purpose a general perk limit serves.

Me neither, but Kromm must think differently or he wouldn't have suggested it. I'd like to understand what that is.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Interesting. It isn't however terribly clear, or there wouldn't be so many elbows in this thread.

I think it's pretty clear.

• Generally, the number of perks is limited to "point total divided by 25".
  
• Combat perks are more limited: in addition to the condition above, they must not be more than "points spent on combat/military/police skills, divided by 20".
  
• Learning a style is a way to go beyond these limits. It can give N extra style perks, where N is no greater than "points spent on the style, divided by 10".

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

I think it's pretty clear.

I see where you are coming from, but if it was so obviously transparent there wouldn't be so many who seem to think otherwise.

[Gurps Fan]

Sorry, English is difficult.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Sorry, English is difficult.

Nah. I think it may be the opposite really. You may have correctly interpreted the rules where native English speakers failed.

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

Nah. I think it may be the opposite really. You may have correctly interpreted the rules where native English speakers failed.

True, there should probably be an instead somewhere shortly after regardless. However, I don't just run off PU2 but also Magical Styles. That has a table giving the maximum amount of perks per points in spells, going up to 100 points giving 15 perks. Thus I don't feel that a general limit interacts with a style limit in anyway, and ultimately you just add all the limits together to determine your net total number of perks.

[Jerron]

I've characters run into the general limit. I think perks are cool, and they happened to come in really handy for that particular build. The GM disallowed it, which I was fine with. I forget exactly what they were, but all of the off-screen stuff seems likely, reload, last man out, the tank is always full one... In an apocalypse setting, those would be kicking.

Anyhow, it's quite clear except whether the style itself counts against the limit. Personally, I think it would be a little silly, however it might just be a case of 'X of these, one of which is your style'. Thinking it silly, I still believe the intent of the rule is for the style to count against the limit- there are builds where you wouldn't be using it. Wildcard skills, Style Adaptation, and other things come to mind, where the distinction is blurred and the rule actually rates much less on the sillyness factor.

[Kromm]

Perk limits are mandatory for styles – magical or martial – to give styles added value, but merely a suggestion to the GM otherwise. General perks are on top of anything specific you get for styles. If you have 40 points in the skills of a fighting style, you can learn four Style Perks for your style and two extra for all those points you spent. If you have 20 points in the spells of a magical style, you can learn two Magic Perks for your style and one extra for having lots of spells. If the GM imposes the "one perk per 25 points" limit from Power-Ups 2, that's an extra bonus . . . a lot like "any PC can have five quirks, regardless of how many points he's worth or what he spends his points on." Thus, if your 150-point PC has 40 points in the skills of a fighting style and 20 points in the spells of a magical style, he can have six general perks, six Style Perks, and three Magic Perks in total.

Magic Perks and Style Perks tend to be a lot more potent than general perks, so their limits are more important. The idea is that these perks serve as small enhancements on magic or combat capability, priced to scale with skill-point outlay rather than the cost of enabling advantages (Magery, Trained by a Master, etc.). Whereas while general perks can enhance skills, they're mainly about characterization – like quirks, but unequivocally beneficial. If the GM limits these, it's more to avoid hard-to-roleplay characters than to balance capabilities.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Kromm

Thus, if your 150-point PC has 40 points in the skills of a fighting style and 20 points in the spells of a magical style, he can have six general perks, six Style Perks, and three Magic Perks in total.

Why isn't that 4 Style Perks (1/10points) and 2 unrestricted combat perks (1/20points)?