Does regeneration 'works' while I'm healthy?

[Reikon]

I know that question may sound stupid, but...

Let's say some character has switchable extreme regeneration with temporary disadvantages. Because his regeneration is extreme, he will probably become healthy every turn. And if regeneration automatically switches off (with its temporary disadvantages), he has to re-activate it every single turn (unless he was injured to negative HP).

This kind of makes sense... but it means that he will begin each his turn without any temporary disadvantages. And he can make his regeneration "reflexive: injurity" for +40%.

And if regeneration doesn't stops if character is healthy, that means "healthy" is a perfectly legitimate Terminal Condition (Powers p112). Probably "common knowledge -20%". And it makes sense to add "trigger: injurity" to regeneration.

What would you say, should regeneration terminate itself on healthy person or not?

By the way, how would you price "Trigger: injured by HP/2" for a regenerator?

[tanniynim]

If it's Switchable, then I'd require the player to turn it on or off. In other words, whether they were at full HP or not, Regeneration is still "On" until the character turns it "Off."

But I could see this varying based upon your/their reasoning for the ability, what Temporary Disadvantages we're looking at, and the world setting...

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Reikon

I know that question may sound stupid, but...
This kind of makes sense... but it means that he will begin each his turn without any temporary disadvantages. And he can make his regeneration "reflexive: injurity" for +40%.

Well maybe. Regeneration doesn't actually specify when the hit points are restored, but it presumably is during *your* turn sometime (i.e. not sometime during the same second, but on your actual turn), so arguably if it isn't actually on and imposing the temporary disadvantages during at least one of one of your turns, you don't heal either. If not, then the temporary disadvantages don't actually disadvantage you and are therefore worth -0%.

(Edit: Actually thinking about it a moment longer, since a switchable advantage normally works for 1 minute, if you take temporary disadvantages on one, I think it's legitimate to insist they must last a minute, even if you stop using the advantage, to be worth the full value)

But sure, it's reasonable enough for your regeneration to switch off automatically when you are healthy, I certainly wouldn't have a problem with a player who wanted to define it that way.

And if regeneration doesn't stops if character is healthy, that means "healthy" is a perfectly legitimate Terminal Condition (Powers p112). Probably "common knowledge -20%".

No, it is not. At least not if it allows *you* to regenerate. You need to go reread that rule, it's only possible to apply it to powers that affect others for at least a minute. And it'd still be pretty much worthless applied to a slow affects others version, on the same if it doesn't disadvantage you it's not a limitation rule.

Most of these questions are pretty clearly the hacks of a rules lawyer who doesn't believe in that rule.

And it makes sense to add "trigger: injurity" to regeneration.

Nope, not that either. Any more than you can add "only in water" to your Amphibious advantage. Being injured is the condition required for the advantage to be of any use.

By the way, how would you price "Trigger: injured by HP/2" for a regenerator?

Hm, that one does seem like a legitimate minor inconvenience. I'd be willing to give it -5%. Maybe even a little more if you had one of the slow forms (i.e. where injuring *yourself* seriously enough to trigger it would add enough extra time to whenever you were fully recovered that this would not actually restore you to full health faster than natural healing would cure a 1 hp injury).

[Reikon]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Well maybe. Regeneration doesn't actually specify when the hit points are restored, but it presumably is during *your* turn sometime (i.e. not sometime during the same second, but on your actual turn), so arguably if it isn't actually on and imposing the temporary disadvantages during at least one of one of your turns, you don't heal either.

It will be much more munchkin-ner if HP will be restored not at the beginning of player's turn.

The whole magic behind that character is that he "burns himself" to use his other abilities (all of them has some levels in "Costs HP" limitation), and then he regenerates. So the more abilities he uses, the easier to die.

If HP restoration happens at the beginning of his turn, he would take risk every time he uses his powers. Something like "Is it safe to jump for 7 HP, or somebody will try to kill me this turn?"
And if restoration happens at the end of turn (or somewhere in the middle), he may just think "Ok, I have 5 HP left, and at the end of turn I'll get 10. So it's completely safe to switch on Striking ST for a second for 4 HP".

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Reikon

It will be much more munchkin-ner if HP will be restored not at the beginning of player's turn.

The whole magic behind that character is that he "burns himself" to use his other abilities (all of them has some levels in "Costs HP" limitation), and then he regenerates. So the more abilities he uses, the easier to die.

In that case, yeah happens at the beginning of the turn makes good sense, and temporary disadvantages are simply invalid as non-disadvantaging. Actually, why does switchable makes any sense with this character concept in the first place? He doesn't actually have to do anything to switch the regeneration on does he?

[Reikon]

Originally Posted by malloyd

In that case, yeah happens at the beginning of the turn makes good sense, and temporary disadvantages are simply invalid as non-disadvantaging. Actually, why does switchable makes any sense with this character concept in the first place? He doesn't actually have to do anything to switch the regeneration on does he?

"Switchable", "reflexive", "terminal conditions" etc. has completely no meaning in this character's case. It's just a crutches to make "temporary disadvantages" work as intended: "While I regenerate, I see the wrole world in shades of red. I can't speak nor feel pleasure, just think about surviving and killing my foes" or something like that. It would be easy to add, "accessibility: while regenerating. -10%" limitation on disadvantages, but, unfortunately, it goes far beyond disadvantage limit, and gives different point costs (N*0.9 points disadvantage instead of -(N*0.8)% limitation to a 150-points advantage).

The whole point is to create this kind of "raging regeneration" advantage.

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by malloyd

In that case, yeah happens at the beginning of the turn makes good sense, and temporary disadvantages are simply invalid as non-disadvantaging. Actually, why does switchable makes any sense with this character concept in the first place? He doesn't actually have to do anything to switch the regeneration on does he?

The best way this would make sense would be if the powers were Alternative Abilities of the Regeneration...

On one side you have the Extreme Regeneration, on the flip side you have a Modular Ability with the Costs HP modifier.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Reikon

It would be easy to add, "accessibility: while regenerating. -10%" limitation on disadvantages, but, unfortunately, it goes far beyond disadvantage limit, and gives different point costs (N*0.9 points disadvantage instead of -(N*0.8)% limitation to a 150-points advantage).

The cost on that is wrong. Limitations on disadvantages are not, and can't be, symmetrical with the percentages on advantages, "only while regenerating" would be a *much* bigger limitation on a disadvantage than -10%.

The whole point is to create this kind of "raging regeneration" advantage.

Have you thought about Aftermath?

[Reikon]

Originally Posted by malloyd

The cost on that is wrong. Limitations on disadvantages are not, and can't be, symmetrical with the percentages on advantages, "only while regenerating" would be a *much* bigger limitation on a disadvantage than -10%.

For regeneration, probably no.
Let's just imagine:

Limitation "Quadriplegic while teeth are switched on" would be -80% for 1-point advantage, and effectively equal to "Limited quaraplegic: only while teeth is on: -100%". A 0-cost disadvantage.

Limitation "Quadriplegic while diffuse" would be the same -80%, but for a 100-point advantage (effectively -80 points, if diffuse is switchable). So, in other terms, it's "Limited quaraplegic: only while diffuse is on: -20%". A 80 points limited disadvantage.

More expensive advantage => more expensive disadvantage.

Regeneration is 150-points, so "Quadriplegic while regenerating" would effectively be -120 points limitation, so, strangely, "Only while regenerating" becomes +20% inverted-limitation... It's stragne, but it works that way. I can't see any reason for a disadvantage to become "*much*" cheaper if it depends on a 150-points advantage.

Originally Posted by malloyd

Have you thought about Aftermath?

What is Aftermath? o_O

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Reikon

Regeneration is 150-points, so "Quadriplegic while regenerating" would effectively be -120 points limitation, so, strangely, "Only while regenerating" becomes +20% inverted-limitation... It's stragne, but it works that way. I can't see any reason for a disadvantage to become "*much*" cheaper if it depends on a 150-points advantage.

No. BS115:
"The point break due to Temporary Disadvantage cannot exceed 80% of the original disadvantage."

Originally Posted by Reikon

What is Aftermath? o_O

Biotech 215. Gives you a temporary disadvantage that comes on for a time after you switch off the associated advantage.