TL5 Dirigible based on Spaceships help wanted

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Just living wood is over half water which not only doesn't give energy but actively steals it by turning into steam where you don't want it.

Right, freshly harvested wood and all that. In that case, either dry out the wood or turn it into charcoal (charcoal's probably faster).

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

After thinking about it for a moment, I see that cargo prices might be more sensible.

It's not exactly a deal-breaker either way ($33M vs $37M), but it's your call.

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

Sounds dangerous for just a smidge more power....
I like it. But what could be done with TL5 technology?

It's a fun idea, but the risk probably far outweighs the slight benefit.
I'd expect any culture that can manage to purify and hold hydrogen could do the same with oxygen, although I could be quite mistaken. Pressurized air canisters are possible - they were used for air guns, after all.

An interesting idea, if you can insure they don't blow up, is to give your harvesting team pressurized oxygen canisters. With some manipulation of the environment, it might be possible to use these to make an oxygen-rich "pit" of some sort, where it would be a good deal easier to start a fire using the green wood you just harvested (so you can have fires both for cooking and turning what you've harvested into usable charcoal fuel). Of course, more mundane means - like just bringing down some of your charcoal with you - would probably work better and be safer. We may just have to give up on the concept of using the waste oxygen, which is a real shame (too bad SCBA and SCUBA are still 2 TL's away, or you could use it for exploration of hostile environments).

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

Right, freshly harvested wood and all that. In that case, either dry out the wood or turn it into charcoal (charcoal's probably faster)..

All the threads about making bows tells me that drying wood properly takes a stupidly long time.

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

It's not exactly a deal-breaker either way ($33M vs $37M), but it's your call.

No waffling, or I'll start to second guess you. ;)

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

It's a fun idea, but the risk probably far outweighs the slight benefit.
I'd expect any culture that can manage to purify and hold hydrogen could do the same with oxygen, although I could be quite mistaken. Pressurized air canisters are possible - they were used for air guns, after all.

An interesting idea, if you can insure they don't blow up, is to give your harvesting team pressurized oxygen canisters. With some manipulation of the environment, it might be possible to use these to make an oxygen-rich "pit" of some sort, where it would be a good deal easier to start a fire using the green wood you just harvested (so you can have fires both for cooking and turning what you've harvested into usable charcoal fuel). Of course, more mundane means - like just bringing down some of your charcoal with you - would probably work better and be safer. We may just have to give up on the concept of using the waste oxygen, which is a real shame (too bad SCBA and SCUBA are still 2 TL's away, or you could use it for exploration of hostile environments).

It just screams for a use. But boring realism would make any sane captain nix the ideas.
Still could be used for medical purposes for a realistic but nevertheless anachronistic feeling.
How much more power could oxygen pumped burners yield at a guess?
X2 or X1.5 power with maybe X5 or X10 fuel use as numbers pulled out of thin air?
Know any metallurgists? :)

[Flyndaran]

The issue with scuba is the regulator to adjust the percentage of oxygen below sea level's 0.2 bars which has little to do with attaining pure oxygen.

OT: while searching I found a cobbled together compressed air powered bicycle.

[Flyndaran]

From my bicycle thread, Malloyd put the modern style at TL5, so we can stock this balloon with a few mountain bikes for an extra alterna-tech feeling.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

All the threads about making bows tells me that drying wood properly takes a stupidly long time.

Seasoning wood takes a stupidly long time. You could just let it get warm and evaporate the water in a much shorter timespan (I've done this personally with wet wood while camping; just put it near the fire for awhile and it'll dry out enough that you can use it). It would probably take a good deal of time with green wood, and you'd probably get really crappy (for purposes of making stuff) wood out of it, so just stick with charcoal.

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

No waffling, or I'll start to second guess you. ;)

Alright then, no charge. If you really think they'd be specially (and expensively) designed for rapid transit, I'd charge $1M for the whole thing ($250K/system).

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

It just screams for a use. But boring realism would make any sane captain nix the ideas.
Still could be used for medical purposes for a realistic but nevertheless anachronistic feeling.

I've heard it can be used to clear hangovers and/or the effects of certain recreational drugs, so some of the sailors might find a use for it in that regard (particularly if they tend to experiment with discovered plants and the like). As a result of this reputation, captains and/or expedition party leaders might keep an oxygen tank on hand so they can breathe it to "clear their minds" when they feel the need. It might also be thought that breathing it will allow one to recover more readily from fatigue, and thus be carried (and breathed every so often) on long marches.
Hey, nobody said it had to truly be useful, just so long as there is a perceived use. Of course, you can also opt to let it work as the characters think - giving positive TDM's on IQ-based checks and increasing FP regeneration (or decreasing its expenditure). Fortunately, it won't really be pure oxygen at TL5 (impurities, notably water, will likely get in the mix), so it shouldn't dry out the lungs too much.

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

How much more power could oxygen pumped burners yield at a guess?
X2 or X1.5 power with maybe X5 or X10 fuel use as numbers pulled out of thin air?
Know any metallurgists? :)

I've got no clue, and I don't know any metallurgists sadly. All you're really doing, however, is burning things hotter, which should probably actually give you better efficiencies, rather than worse (efficiency gets better as the difference in temperature between source and sink increases). Off-hand, I'd say you might be able to get away with 1.5x power with ~1.4x fuel expenditure with a lot of oxygen - maybe a full gasbag's worth burned over the course of merely an hour!

These numbers, like yours, are pretty much from thin air. Maybe someone else will come along who has a better idea?

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

From my bicycle thread, Malloyd put the modern style at TL5, so we can stock this balloon with a few mountain bikes for an extra alterna-tech feeling.

That is awesome. Did TL5 have mountainbike equivalents? You're going to need some rugged tires, unless you're intending to use the bikes only at civilized stops.

You might be able to downgrade some of the bits and use something like this to escort the various bicycle expeditions as support.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

...
I've got no clue, and I don't know any metallurgists sadly. All you're really doing, however, is burning things hotter, which should probably actually give you better efficiencies, rather than worse (efficiency gets better as the difference in temperature between source and sink increases). Off-hand, I'd say you might be able to get away with 1.5x power with ~1.4x fuel expenditure with a lot of oxygen - maybe a full gasbag's worth burned over the course of merely an hour!

These numbers, like yours, are pretty much from thin air. Maybe someone else will come along who has a better idea?



That is awesome. Did TL5 have mountainbike equivalents? You're going to need some rugged tires, unless you're intending to use the bikes only at civilized stops.

You might be able to downgrade some of the bits and use something like this to escort the various bicycle expeditions as support.

That quadracycle is awesome. But alas as a first generation gas engine it's definitely TL6. An even weirder one powered by compressed air would be possible if inefficient and clunky. Perfect for an overfunded gadget loving expedition type endeavor.

I imagine making a one speed mountain bike wouldn't be that much more difficult than a multi-speed one. Also, solid rubber tires would be hardier and easier to make.

As to using oxygen to increase efficiency and power. 1.5/1.4 seems as sensible as any other set of numbers until and unless we hear from someone with even a modicum of expertise.

[Flyndaran]

Looking at fuel I found a nice chart of BTU.
1 ton coal 16.2 million to 26 million
1 ton wood 9 million to 17 million
I imagine with coal's greater density than wood you could get much more out of a specific volume compared to wood. Whoops. Apparently they are around the same density.

1 gallon (I assume american) kerosene 135K
about 39.6 million per ton.

1 gallon gasoline 125K