Damage to Armor

DanHoward · 10-04-2010, 03:53 PM

As Matt said, there are armour damage riules in Companion 2, but all of the options examined in the Low-Tech playtest involve an annoying level of book-keeping. We did include a Quick and Dirty option but it isn't very satisfying IMO. I would only bother with armour damage when the PCs are involved in frequent fighting and don't have access to armoury services for extended periods of time - such as when exploring a dungeon or when in the middle of a military campaign. For the rest of the time I would just rule that the Cost of Living expenses includes keeping your armour maintained.

Kuroshima · 10-04-2010, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward

As Matt said, there are armour damage riules in Companion 2, but all of the options examined in the Low-Tech playtest involve an annoying level of book-keeping. We did include a Quick and Dirty option but it isn't very satisfying IMO. I would only bother with armour damage when the PCs are involved in frequent fighting and don't have access to armoury services for extended periods of time - such as when exploring a dungeon or when in the middle of a military campaign. For the rest of the time I would just rule that the Cost of Living expenses includes keeping your armour maintained.

If it's the option that appeared in the initial manuscript, then yeah, it isn't the most satisfying of them, but it required rather less bookkeeping than the others. Now I would only use it in a grim and gritty military campaign, since I feel that DF usually goes for quick and dirty rules. Now, I use damage to shields rules even in DF, and I'll probably add damage to armors...

DanHoward · 10-04-2010, 05:35 PM

I wasn't thinking of DF. Plenty of my campaigns involved the party exploring a "dungeon"* for extended periods of time. If they were involved in frequent combat then I would use armour and weapon damage just as I would keep record of their arrows, food, and light sources. Most of the time I don't bother with this level of detail since they would have ready access to supplies and services.

* mine complex, catacombs, ruined fortress, derelict spaceship, etc.

Psychotime · 10-04-2010, 05:57 PM

I'm actually surprised that there aren't any official rules on something like that (not that I'd use them). I mean...GURPS has a reputation to keep.

demonsbane · 10-04-2010, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward

I wasn't thinking of DF. Plenty of my campaigns involved the party exploring a "dungeon"* for extended periods of time. If they were involved in frequent combat then I would use armour and weapon damage just as I would keep record of their arrows, food, and light sources. Most of the time I don't bother with this level of detail since they would have ready access to supplies and services.

* mine complex, catacombs, ruined fortress, derelict spaceship, etc.

Very true, dungeons aren't by no means exclusive of Dungeon Fantasy!

(However, I believe Kuroshima was merely speaking from the point of view of one of his current campaigns and gaming mood.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psychotime

I'm actually surprised that there aren't any official rules on something like that (not that I'd use them). I mean...GURPS has a reputation to keep.

I agree. And I would be up for a GURPS Basic Set with about 1000+ pages or more. . . These rules on armor damage are going to be very appreciated. They were expected.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

(...) Now, I use damage to shields rules even in DF, and I'll probably add damage to armors...

I agree very much with that. It can contribute to enhance the game experience.

Gudiomen · 10-04-2010, 07:42 PM

It's not that there weren't rules for armor damage to this day, there were. I believe they were in Compendium II 3rd edition, but I'm a little lazy to dig it up, and I might be misremembering from all the discussions and house-rules that were flying about at the end of 3e.

It's more the fact that, like Dan said, they're not very satisfactory, and when they are they become (I assume) too crunchy and annoying to book-keep. I myself never liked the rules, although the simulator in me aches for armor that degrades, all the options examined up to now are more annoying than satisfactory, they leave a bad taste in your mouth or bog up your game.

It's quite possible that this was deemed too specific for Basic, while at the same time unsatisfactory and a possible obstacle for Fun. And Fun beats Realism in 4e. I can't speak for the game-developers and editors though, but the rules for it aren't new.

This is one area in which, in the absence of good rules, I prefer to eyeball things as the GM.

Lord Azagthoth · 10-05-2010, 02:52 PM

In my campaign, the normal maintenance cost is covered by the Cost of Living. Only when someone gets hit critically, or loses a armored limb, damage is calculated. In case of the crit, I use the semi-ablative rule for the bodypart hit. In case of the lost limb, that section is completely destroyed.

panton41 · 10-06-2010, 02:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanHoward

As Matt said, there are armour damage riules in Companion 2, but all of the options examined in the Low-Tech playtest involve an annoying level of book-keeping. We did include a Quick and Dirty option but it isn't very satisfying IMO. I would only bother with armour damage when the PCs are involved in frequent fighting and don't have access to armoury services for extended periods of time - such as when exploring a dungeon or when in the middle of a military campaign. For the rest of the time I would just rule that the Cost of Living expenses includes keeping your armour maintained.

I know they're written for Low Tech, but how might these scale to High- or Ultra-Tech or does that idea give you a migraine to consider? (I seem to recall HT suggesting to treat bullet resistant armors as semi-ablative to simulate how they lose effectiveness after a few hits.)

Maz · 10-06-2010, 02:34 AM

I use a very simple rule based on the Ablative-DR idea.

Each type of armour has an ID number (Impact Damage). This is the amount of damage needed to reduce the DR by one.

So a really sturdy exo-amour might have ID:20, while a flak-vest have ID:4.

This rule was originally for a cyberpunk setting (SLA Industries), where damage to armour is a big part of the original rule-set, that's also where the ID-name comes from.
But the rules could easily be used for any setting, including fantasy.

You could base the ID number on material and go with something as simple as Leather/Cloth=ID:6. Mail=ID:8. Iron=ID:10. Steel=ID:12.
Or whatever you find appropriate. This also gives access to a new stat to play with when it comes to quality of armour. Poor quality armour will of course have a reduced ID.

For added details you might let people add the cutting multiplier of cut-attacks to see if they damage leather/cloth armour. (So you only need to do 4 pts cut to reduce DR with 1 of the armour).

I don't have any rules for repairing armour, as in the setting I made the rules for ,it was just done at a set price in a shop.
But you could probably whip something up based on the rules in Basic.

DanHoward · 10-06-2010, 07:03 AM

Low Tech basically uses the Damage to Objects rules. Determine the armour's weight and look up its hit points on p.B558 in the Homogenus column. When HP is less than 1/3 it has half DR. When it is 0 or less then it is so damaged that it no longer provides any protection at all. It also affects DX until it is removed. It is covered in Companion 2.

10-04-2010, 03:53 PM	#1
DanHoward Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia	Re: Damage to Armor As Matt said, there are armour damage riules in Companion 2, but all of the options examined in the Low-Tech playtest involve an annoying level of book-keeping. We did include a Quick and Dirty option but it isn't very satisfying IMO. I would only bother with armour damage when the PCs are involved in frequent fighting and don't have access to armoury services for extended periods of time - such as when exploring a dungeon or when in the middle of a military campaign. For the rest of the time I would just rule that the Cost of Living expenses includes keeping your armour maintained. Last edited by DanHoward; 10-04-2010 at 03:56 PM.

10-04-2010, 05:35 PM	#3
DanHoward Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia	Re: Damage to Armor I wasn't thinking of DF. Plenty of my campaigns involved the party exploring a "dungeon"* for extended periods of time. If they were involved in frequent combat then I would use armour and weapon damage just as I would keep record of their arrows, food, and light sources. Most of the time I don't bother with this level of detail since they would have ready access to supplies and services. * mine complex, catacombs, ruined fortress, derelict spaceship, etc. Last edited by DanHoward; 10-04-2010 at 05:39 PM.

10-04-2010, 05:57 PM	#4
Psychotime Join Date: Jun 2009	Re: Damage to Armor I'm actually surprised that there aren't any official rules on something like that (not that I'd use them). I mean...GURPS has a reputation to keep. __________________ Who is this kid? [link]

10-04-2010, 07:42 PM	#6
Gudiomen Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: in your pocket, stealing all your change	Re: Damage to Armor It's not that there weren't rules for armor damage to this day, there were. I believe they were in Compendium II 3rd edition, but I'm a little lazy to dig it up, and I might be misremembering from all the discussions and house-rules that were flying about at the end of 3e. It's more the fact that, like Dan said, they're not very satisfactory, and when they are they become (I assume) too crunchy and annoying to book-keep. I myself never liked the rules, although the simulator in me aches for armor that degrades, all the options examined up to now are more annoying than satisfactory, they leave a bad taste in your mouth or bog up your game. It's quite possible that this was deemed too specific for Basic, while at the same time unsatisfactory and a possible obstacle for Fun. And Fun beats Realism in 4e. I can't speak for the game-developers and editors though, but the rules for it aren't new. This is one area in which, in the absence of good rules, I prefer to eyeball things as the GM.

10-05-2010, 02:52 PM	#7
Lord Azagthoth Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Helmouth, The Netherlands	Re: Damage to Armor In my campaign, the normal maintenance cost is covered by the Cost of Living. Only when someone gets hit critically, or loses a armored limb, damage is calculated. In case of the crit, I use the semi-ablative rule for the bodypart hit. In case of the lost limb, that section is completely destroyed. __________________ May the Force be with us all Dark Lord Azagthoth Star Wars - TRPG

10-06-2010, 02:34 AM	#9
Maz Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Denmark	Re: Damage to Armor I use a very simple rule based on the Ablative-DR idea. Each type of armour has an ID number (Impact Damage). This is the amount of damage needed to reduce the DR by one. So a really sturdy exo-amour might have ID:20, while a flak-vest have ID:4. This rule was originally for a cyberpunk setting (SLA Industries), where damage to armour is a big part of the original rule-set, that's also where the ID-name comes from. But the rules could easily be used for any setting, including fantasy. You could base the ID number on material and go with something as simple as Leather/Cloth=ID:6. Mail=ID:8. Iron=ID:10. Steel=ID:12. Or whatever you find appropriate. This also gives access to a new stat to play with when it comes to quality of armour. Poor quality armour will of course have a reduced ID. For added details you might let people add the cutting multiplier of cut-attacks to see if they damage leather/cloth armour. (So you only need to do 4 pts cut to reduce DR with 1 of the armour). I don't have any rules for repairing armour, as in the setting I made the rules for ,it was just done at a set price in a shop. But you could probably whip something up based on the rules in Basic.

10-06-2010, 07:03 AM	#10
DanHoward Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Maitland, NSW, Australia	Re: Damage to Armor Low Tech basically uses the Damage to Objects rules. Determine the armour's weight and look up its hit points on p.B558 in the Homogenus column. When HP is less than 1/3 it has half DR. When it is 0 or less then it is so damaged that it no longer provides any protection at all. It also affects DX until it is removed. It is covered in Companion 2.