GURPS Shadowrun

[Godogma]

Augmented reality I have no problem with, its the various hacking abilities for cyberware and smartguns and whatnot else that gets my goat.

I don't even mind hacking wirelessly dependent on a few other factors if you remove the ability to hack cyberware and smartguns and all that good rot.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Godogma

As for a command line interface being rare? Are you for real? Every instance of Linux whether it has a GUI or not is run on a command line interface, not to mention Unix.

A command line interface is an interface. If the user isn't using the command line, its availability or level of integration into the OS doesn't change that.

[Godogma]

Everyone I know who uses Linux or any other Unix style system swears by the level of control a command line provides as well as the ability they have to compile their own packages etc... I don't know anyone who uses Linux who doesn't use the command line.

[CousinX]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

If computers that can brainhack you with lethal results were as rare and hard to build as suitcase nukes (and this is impossible in today's world for anyone except a major military-industrial complex) you might have a valid parallel.

Instead you seem to be trying to set up a world where computers equal deathrays yet are as common as cellphones. This is the central disconnect. This is the thing that snaps my SoD. This doesn't make sense.

Where did I say that computer-deathrays are as common as cellphones?

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Indeed, one of the things that made SR3 kind of tight-assed was trying to patch logical holes in the setting.

Part of the patch on one of those logical holes was to admit that if you weren't jacked into the Matrix with hot ASiST with all the safety overrides turned off Black Ice couldn't kill you.

That makes sense to me ... presuming that a hacker will have to turn off the various autopilots and safety overrides to do most of his hacking, it makes all the sense in the world. Normal ("legitimate") users need never worry about Black ICE, because they're not trying to run illegal software that only runs if you disable all the fuzzy-wuzzy safety controls on your deck.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

Legal sane sararimen never interacted with the Matrix at that level of intensity but they weren't in personal danger either. This made much more sense.

I also may be the wrong to try and use Transhuman Space as a an argument against. I'm listed as a playtester in all but 2 of every TS book SJGames ever published. I missed one because I had major surgery during the playtest. :)

That's cool, it would have been fun to playtest TS stuff.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

So this means I know that AR is very common in the TS world but not universal, does not require neurosurgery and can't kill you. You didn't even have to participate in AR to reap whatever benefits it grants. You could have your SAI do it for you.

Hence, my statement about needing a DNI jack or a set of HUD goggles ... and in a setting where you can have a SAI do it for you, you might even dispense with the goggles.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

I also know that TS is built around a "strong encryption" assumption. Very strong in 4e terms, when the rest of the computing world in TS is about TL 10, encryption would be TL15 and a half. It's the sort of place where there is very very little serious hacking and the net is improbably secure. That's one of the reason ubiquitous computing works in the setting.

Yeah, that's one thing that bothered me about TS. It's as though they deliberately hand-waved to make hacking impossible. If I were to run a TS campaign, that's one aspect I'd probably leave out... but then, I'm an old-schooler when it comes to my cyberpunk. :)

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

When I was trying to puzzle my way through SR4 I thought the SAI trick was what I would do in that setting. I'd run a disposably cheap computer as my personal node, set it to go "beep" if it got pinged by the cops and mostly ignore it the rest of the time.

AR mostly seems to be an advertising medium in either world and people living in such a world want to find some way to filter out the commercials.

Only inasmuch as the internet is mostly an advertising medium. (Well, that and porn...) In both cases, it's mostly an information medium, and so ads are certainly common, but they're just as certainly not the only use.

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

There was a good bit in TS about filtering software but that is only one step short of my having the SAI do the whole thing for you.

So, no. Augmented Reality and Ubiquitous Computing does not automatically lead to brain-frying computers and the universal acceptance of them. I don't think there's a logical way they could

Never said it did. I think you're trying to argue with someone else.... my assertion was that sensory-interface computers are common in settings where there's lots of sensory-interface information, e.g. AR.

[CousinX]

Originally Posted by Godogma

As for a command line interface being rare? Are you for real? Every instance of Linux whether it has a GUI or not is run on a command line interface, not to mention Unix.

So it's your argument that command line interface is still a mainstream, commonly-used interface? What percentage of computer users do you think primarily use the command line, i.e. use it more than a GUI? What percentage use the command line at least as often as they use a GUI? What percentage would you guess use it at all?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Godogma

Everyone I know who uses Linux or any other Unix style system swears by the level of control a command line provides as well as the ability they have to compile their own packages etc... I don't know anyone who uses Linux who doesn't use the command line.

I don't think it's inaccurate to say that users who "compile their own packages etc..." are rare. There's considerable overlap between them and people who run Linux, no doubt. But the latter group isn't exactly ubiquitous either.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by CousinX

my assertion was that sensory-interface computers are common in settings where there's lots of sensory-interface information, e.g. AR.

In TS the most common sensory interface is video glasses and not neural link.

[Godogma]

I have no idea on percentages, I like the convenience of a GUI but I still often use Dosbox and other emulators to run older systems (I play old games and use some old programs) I also use the command line frequently when I use my dual boot box to run Linux.

Granted, its probably fairly uncommon but I wouldn't say its rare. Especially not among the Linux using community.

*shrug*

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

In TS the most common sensory interface is video glasses and not neural link.

Which is probably a lot more realistic. I know that given a choice between a wearable and an implant I'll get a wearable. For one thing you don't want to go under the knife every-time there's a an upgrade or recall. As far as SR goes, though, it's not like it's a realistic setting. I don't see ubiquitous neural interface as less plausible than trolls and ghosts.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Godogma

Everyone I know who uses Linux or any other Unix style system swears by the level of control a command line provides as well as the ability they have to compile their own packages etc... I don't know anyone who uses Linux who doesn't use the command line.

I use linux, and I occasionally use the command line interface, but usually I use a GUI.