Targeting specific locations, difficulty and fairness issues

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by OldSam

What do you think of giving a generic penalty of -1 (?) to random attacks?
(mainly to avoid giving away free headshots etc. "for nothing" and also to represent a slightly higher chance of missing, due to the unprecise, chaotic nature of the attack)

Originally Posted by Phoenix_Dragon

Less "unprecise, chaotic," more "whatever presents itself," I would think.

Exactly, there's no need to penalize the attack, sometimes the head is easier to hit because the opponent has ducked right onto your fist, it happens all the time.

This is why I like leaving that option of a random hit on the table, most of the time you don't use it, but in some instances it makes perfect sense to use it.

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Random hit location may get you a high value target by accident, but generally it's going to get you a sub-optimal combination for the targets DR and your damage type, ...

If we're talking about armored combatants I would totally agree, but don't you think that a random attack is, in almost all fights against someone without body protection, better than a normal torso attack? ("better" because of the good chance to hit a point where it really affects your opponent - ok, if you're doing "a lot" of damage, than you might waste some of it, but I think this is rather a special case, especially if we consider that limb cripples are quite effective)

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by OldSam

If we're talking about armored combatants I would totally agree, but don't you think that a random attack is, in almost all fights against someone without body protection, better than a normal torso attack? ("better" because of the good chance to hit a point where it really affects your opponent - ok, if you're doing "a lot" of damage, than you might waste some of it, but I think this is rather a special case, especially if we consider that limb cripples are quite effective)

You're letting the word "random" confuse you.
This type of attack represents a precise strike at the most convenient and most easily hit target available, the "random" part of it is the determination of what that easily hit target is, not the attack itself.

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by Ze'Manel Cunha

This type of attack represents a precise strike at the most convenient and most easily hit target available, the "random" part of it is the determination of what that easily hit target is, not the attack itself.

Yes, I know ;) My point was that IMO in a combat <without armor> players who choose to strike/shoot at a random hit location, get usually a <free advantage> in comparison to those just going for the default (torso)! (Because they can have a lucky head-shot, leg-cripple or something like that).
Am I overlooking something?

[Ze'Manel Cunha]

Originally Posted by OldSam

Yes, I know ;) My point was that IMO in a combat <without armor> players who choose to strike/shoot at a random hit location, get usually a <free advantage> in comparison to those just going for the default (torso)! (Because they can have a lucky head-shot, leg-cripple or something like that).
Am I overlooking something?

As mentioned earlier, with many damage types the multiplier is smaller if you hit the limbs, see p.399, but other than that it's much more realistic this way.

The -5 to hit someone in the face or -4 to hit their foot is based on it not being convenient to do so, in real life it's much easier to hit people in the face or stomp on their feet as they move about and give you that opportunity.

That random roll simply signified what is most convenient to hit that second without requiring a lot of exposition on the part of the GM.

In other words, in a very narrative game I could say "Your opponent steps up to punch at you, weaving and positioning his head within easy striking distance of your fists, you're at +5 to hit his face."

But most of us GMs aren't going to be that narrative and we often forget to give enough detail on realistic opportunities, so that random roll can help, sometimes.

[Kromm]

What you're overlooking is that generally, random hit location hurts you as often as it helps you. Yes, you certainly can win the lottery and strike a hit location that's optimally affected by your weapon of choice, despite lacking the skill or refusing the accept the penalty to hit that part with a called shot. However, you can also lose. A spear hitting the arm doesn't get its ×2 wounding modifier; a leg hit that puts a gunman on the ground makes him no less dangerous to you, as being on the ground gives him no penalty to hit (p. B551) and even lets him brace (p. B364); any limb hit wastes injury beyond that needed to cripple; a lethal skull hit in a self-defense situation could have you up on charges; any hit that happens to randomly land on a more-armored area is simply less effective; and so on. Averaged out over all kinds of weapons and combats, random hits are on the whole a wash . . . they hinder the attacker as often as they help him, and are in no way a uniformly "free" advantage.

Anecdotally, players in my campaign absolutely detest random shots because the majority of the time, enough body blows to drop someone to 0 HP is the goal. Throwing a big, potentially fight-ending shot, rolling the dice, and hearing, "Okay, you crippled his hand" . . . well, that isn't a good thing. I've never seen random hit locations consistently work out better than torso hits.

[Daeglan]

Thats kinda what I like about the Millennium's end system you pick your target and how well you rolled decides how close to that target you hit. and it might hit open air or it might hit a hit location on the completely opposite end of the body.

[pst]

Originally Posted by Daeglan

Thats kinda what I like about the Millennium's end system you pick your target and how well you rolled decides how close to that target you hit. and it might hit open air or it might hit a hit location on the completely opposite end of the body.

Swedish rpg "Western" has something similar, with hit locations on a transparency that you put over a picture of what you're trying to hit. I like the idea! At http://www.alvione.com/rollspelsmuse...tern/02-00.htm you can see the transparency and some pictures to put behind it.

[sir_pudding]

Aces and Eights does this as well, it's one of the few things I thought was good about that game. Too bad it's otherwise generally unplayable, IMO.

[OldSam]

Originally Posted by Kromm

A spear hitting the arm doesn't get its ×2 wounding modifier; a leg hit that puts a gunman on the ground makes him no less dangerous to you, as being on the ground gives him no penalty to hit (p. B551) and even lets him brace (p. B364); any limb hit wastes injury beyond that needed to cripple; a lethal skull hit in a self-defense situation could have you up on charges; any hit that happens to randomly land on a more-armored area is simply less effective; and so on. Averaged out over all kinds of weapons and combats, random hits are on the whole a wash . . .

Ok, good to know, obviously I really did underestimate that aspect... ;)
Thanks for the great help!