Resurrection vs. Stacked Deck

[Andrew Hackard]

Originally Posted by bonetm

But the Cleric is allowed to draw a replacement, as per the Stacked Deck rule. Does this replacement comes from the top of the discards? This seems reasonable, since he was going to draw from the discards, but this can be bad. Can he choose?

The Cleric may draw from the Door deck, or he may use Resurrection *again* to take the top Door discard.

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

The Cleric may draw from the Door deck, or he may use Resurrection *again* to take the top Door discard.

I feel like I said that twice now. Here's hoping the third time's the charm. . . lol

[aeronaut]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hackard

The Cleric may draw from the Door deck, or he may use Resurrection *again* to take the top Door discard.

Understood and accepted. But note that the card on top of the door discard pile may be:

1) The card the cleric discarded to use the resurrection power the first time.
2) The stacked deck card (if it's a door and not a treasure), which might be a reasonable result. I can't remember or find online whether stacked deck is a door or treasure.

Regards,
aeronaut

[maxdemon76]

Originally Posted by aeronaut

Understood and accepted. But note that the card on top of the door discard pile may be:

1) The card the cleric discarded to use the resurrection power the first time.
2) The stacked deck card (if it's a door and not a treasure), which might be a reasonable result. I can't remember or find online whether stacked deck is a door or treasure.

Regards,
aeronaut

Well if it's the card that the cleric originally discarded, it doesn't seem all that worth it to use resurrection again in order to retrieve it back. I'd probably just draw from the deck.

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by aeronaut

Understood and accepted. But note that the card on top of the door discard pile may be:

1) The card the cleric discarded to use the resurrection power the first time.
2) The stacked deck card (if it's a door and not a treasure), which might be a reasonable result. I can't remember or find online whether stacked deck is a door or treasure.

Regards,
aeronaut

Yup. We've already covered that, I thought. But, rather than continuing to not know, I'm going to tell you now that the card on the Door discard pile will always be Stacked Deck, regardless of what the Cleric discarded because the Cleric's action must be completed first, like I described earlier, and Stacked Deck is, in fact, a Door card.

[aeronaut]

Right. Of course, it's possible that the cleric discarded a treasure from hand, so that card could still be on top of the treasure discards, but would not be available when kicking down the door unless there was some other strangeness going on.

Thanks, Erik. That pretty much answers everything I was not clear on about this situation, and should end this thread.

I still feel that the cleric gets a raw deal, spending a card to resurrect and getting nothing for it. But such is life, or at least such is Munchkin, I suppose. And it's not like clerics are underpowered.

Regards,
aeronaut

[Nerftw]

Originally Posted by aeronaut

I still feel that the cleric gets a raw deal, spending a card to resurrect and getting nothing for it. But such is life, or at least such is Munchkin, I suppose. And it's not like clerics are underpowered.

Well where would the fun be in succeeding every single time? I don't see how this is any different than pumping up a monster to the point where a player has to run away after having used all their cards through one shots and discards. Or any other card you can use to cancel an ability, or curses to remove items.

[Palmer]

Originally Posted by aeronaut

I still feel that the cleric gets a raw deal, spending a card to resurrect and getting nothing for it.

Now if you were to play a curse on me (Lose A Level perhaps) and I prevented that with a wishing ring, would you feel that was a "raw deal"? I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume you don't.

You spend a card to do something (curse/rez), and I spend a card (ring/stack) to prevent that.

Fairest exchange there is.
More fair than the curse/ring exchange even, since the curse is a door and the ring is a treasure.

[aeronaut]

Originally Posted by Palmer

Now if you were to play a curse on me (Lose A Level perhaps) and I prevented that with a wishing ring, would you feel that was a "raw deal"?

No, that't not it. Playing a curse/wishing ring, or playing a wandering monster when someone is about to win, is part of the game.

The distinction here is that the cleric discards a card to get an advantage, and then that advantage gets taken away (by use of another card,) and the cleric gets nothing for her pains. If the cleric then wants to take the stacked deck off the door discard pile, she has to discard another card to get it. And of course, an unscrupulous player with another stacked deck could take that stacked deck, discarding his own stacked deck. This progression could repeat until the cleric is out of cards to discard, and is then forced to draw the top door card (more likely, until the cleric figures out that she won't be able to get the stacked deck either, and gives up.

Now that's munchkiny.

As a final suggestion, I'd recommend that the resurrection ability have the wording changed to make this ruling more clear, something like "When you are supposed to draw a face up card, take the top card from the appropriate discard pile in place of the face up draw, and discard one card." Removing the "instead of" would clarify the situation that started this thread in the first place. Instead of implies that you don't perform the replaced action (drawing a face up card;) if that is accurate, then stacked deck wouldn't be able to be used here, since you aren't drawing a face up card but doing something "instead" of that. Since Andrew and Eric have made it clear that the stacked deck can be used in this situation, the resurrection ability should be worded to make it clear that it can.

Regards,
aeronaut

[Nerftw]

Originally Posted by aeronaut

No, that't not it. Playing a curse/wishing ring, or playing a wandering monster when someone is about to win, is part of the game.

The distinction here is that the cleric discards a card to get an advantage, and then that advantage gets taken away (by use of another card,) and the cleric gets nothing for her pains.

Just like if they discarded to gain a bonus and still lost the battle. It's part of the game. Sometimes you can block someone's move.

Attack, counter attack. I'm not seeing how that's any different than any other move.