Are quirks officially counted as disadvantages?

[Ack]

I'm having a bit of a difference of opinion with my GM; I'm bringing a character into a very low-end game (40 points, -20 in disads) and when I asked him if Quirks were allowed, he said yes. But then he said they counted against the disadvantage limit. When I questioned this, he said that in the RAW, they were disadvantages and thus subject to the cap.

Anyone? Please?

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Ack

I'm having a bit of a difference of opinion with my GM; I'm bringing a character into a very low-end game (40 points, -20 in disads) and when I asked him if Quirks were allowed, he said yes. But then he said they counted against the disadvantage limit. When I questioned this, he said that in the RAW, they were disadvantages and thus subject to the cap.

Anyone? Please?

They are disadvantages, like anything else with a negative point cost. It's up to the GM if he wants to count them against the disad cap for a particular campaign. If you think he's only doing that because he wants to go "by the book", it's not customary to count Quirks or negative point [race features] against the disad cap.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

If you think he's only doing that because he wants to go "by the book", it's not customary to count Quirks or negative point [race features] against the disad cap.

Whose custom? The Basic Set says they should count, and GCA counts them (quirks not racial disadvantages).

[Ack]

Where in the Basic Set does it specifically state that quirks count against any disadvantage cap?

And GCA is a character building program; GCS (which I use) counts Quirks separately.

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Ack

Where in the Basic Set does it specifically state that quirks count against any disadvantage cap?

Page 11, "A disadvantage is anything with a negative cost, including ... and all the specific disabilities listed in Chapter 3." Page 120, " This limit applies to the total points you can get from all traits with a negative point costs ... or the list below."

And GCA is a character building program; GCS (which I use) counts Quirks separately.

GCA is the "official" program, and I gather the way it accounts for disadvantage limits was one of the initial requirements that Armin was instructed to implement.

[Desthro]

I've never counted them against the Disadvantage Cap, mostly because I feel that they are trivial RP elements that the Player is taking on, and as such, I don't mind rewarding them with those extra points. They add flavor in a nearly non-mechanical way.

This is probably because that was from 3rd edition, I'd have to bust out the dusty tomes from then, but I don't think they counted then.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Ack

Where in the Basic Set does it specifically state that quirks count against any disadvantage cap?

Page 11, right under Disadvantage limit.

Disadvantage Limit
A disadvantage is anything with a
negative cost, including low attributes,
reduced social status, and all the spe-
cific disabilities listed in Chapter 3.

Note that quirks are in chapter 3, which is labeled disadvantages, and have a negative cost.

Originally Posted by Ack

And GCA is a character building program; GCS (which I use) counts Quirks separately.

GCA has the weight of being the official SJG endorsed character building program. GCS does not, so using it as an argument one way or another on the rules is about as "authoritative" as using the forums here.

[Ack]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Page 11, right under Disadvantage limit.

Disadvantage Limit
A disadvantage is anything with a
negative cost, including low attributes,
reduced social status, and all the spe-
cific disabilities listed in Chapter 3.

Note that quirks are in chapter 3, which is labeled disadvantages, and have a negative cost.

Except that it's also stated that quirks are not necessarily disadvantages.

Originally Posted by Bruno

GCA has the weight of being the official SJG endorsed character building program. GCS does not, so using it as an argument one way or another on the rules is about as "authoritative" as using the forums here.

See, I didn't know that.

I'm used to 3rd edition, where Quirks had their own chapter ...

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by Desthro

This is probably because that was from 3rd edition, I'd have to bust out the dusty tomes from then, but I don't think they counted then.

That was the way it was in 3E, yes.

Originally Posted by Ack

Except that it's also stated that quirks are not necessarily disadvantages.

How so? According to page 11, a disadvantage is a trait with a negative cost, quirks have a negative cost, therefore they are disadvantages.

[Ack]

Page 162, under 'Quirks'.

A “quirk” is a minor feature that sets you aside from others. It has a negative point value, but it is not necessarily a disadvantage. For instance, a major trait like Greed is a disadvantage. But if you insist on being paid in gold, that’s a quirk.
You may take up to five quirks at -1 point apiece . . . and if you do, you will have five more points to spend.