Psionic Powers: Brute Force vs Will

[PK]

Originally Posted by Edges

Tell me, how would you model a psi who can penetrate the mind of a high Will target by trying really hard?

Well, if you mean a truly high Will target (17+), the trouble is that the psi is only at 50/50 odds against him at best, no matter how high he goes. So adding more skill, whether via a FP stunt or just by simple training, won't address that.

But that's an intentional effect of the system. To get around it, you pretty much have to either take Drain IQ (the Psychic Vampirism ability) or let psis buy Cosmic (No rule of 16)* on their abilities. While the latter seems tricky at first, it's really simple if you treat it as an "add-on advantage" for any ability, that just happens to cost half the cost of the base advantage(s). E.g., buying Cosmic (Telesend) would cost 15 points and buying Cosmic (TK Grab) would cost (2.5 * level) points.

* From GURPS Psionic Campaigns.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

Well, if you mean a truly high Will target (17+), the trouble is that the psi is only at 50/50 odds against him at best, no matter how high he goes. So adding more skill, whether via a FP stunt or just by simple training, won't address that.

But that's an intentional effect of the system. To get around it, you pretty much have to either take Drain IQ (the Psychic Vampirism ability) or let psis buy Cosmic (No rule of 16)* on their abilities. While the latter seems tricky at first, it's really simple if you treat it as an "add-on advantage" for any ability, that just happens to cost half the cost of the base advantage(s). E.g., buying Cosmic (Telesend) would cost 15 points and buying Cosmic (TK Grab) would cost (2.5 * level) points.

* From GURPS Psionic Campaigns.

Uh, I do appreciate the response, but you seem to have answered a different question. I wasn't asking "what advantages can someone get to overcome high will?"

I was asking, "How would you model a psi overcoming high Will with effort?" (Sorry for the ambiguity.)

Example:
Let's say a PC telepath has a skill of 10 and he's facing someone with Will 15. IIRC, he has something like a 10% chance of success. But if the player who's PC it was said he was willing to burn as many FP as he could because the fate of the mission depended on this mind read, I'd want to give him a better chance. What do you think would be a fair way to give him this better chance?

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Edges

Uh, I do appreciate the response, but you seem to have answered a different question. I wasn't asking "what advantages can someone get to overcome high will?"

I was asking, "How would you model a psi overcoming high Will with effort?" (Sorry for the ambiguity.)

Example:
Let's say a PC telepath has a skill of 10 and he's facing someone with Will 15. IIRC, he has something like a 10% chance of success. But if the player who's PC it was said he was willing to burn as many FP as he could because the fate of the mission depended on this mind read, I'd want to give him a better chance. What do you think would be a fair way to give him this better chance?

Nt really. He has also answered your question, but in a non-direct way. Cosmic (No rule of 16) could be obtained via a psi technique (default: skill -5, Max: Skill). You can spend FP to negate the penalty for the technique, as usual with psi techniques, and so long as you have (modified) over skill 17, you will improve your chances

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Kuroshima

Nt really. He has also answered your question, but in a non-direct way. Cosmic (No rule of 16) could be obtained via a psi technique (default: skill -5, Max: Skill). You can spend FP to negate the penalty for the technique, as usual with psi techniques, and so long as you have (modified) over skill 17, you will improve your chances

As you see, we've already gone over the Rule of 16 up-thread pretty much to death.

Requiring a skill of 17+ is a pretty limiting factor. It doesn't apply to my example, for instance, and it will likely not apply to most (if not all) of the conditions that will come up in the campaign. If only master psis can use extra effort to help overcome Will, it's not nearly as useful and it's not going to satisfy my players.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Edges

Let's say a PC telepath has a skill of 10 and he's facing someone with Will 15. IIRC, he has something like a 10% chance of success. But if the player who's PC it was said he was willing to burn as many FP as he could because the fate of the mission depended on this mind read, I'd want to give him a better chance. What do you think would be a fair way to give him this better chance?

If you want to allow Trading Fatigue For Skill, that'd certainly be the easiest way. Boosting his skill up to 14 would get him closer to about a 40% chance of success.

I'd never allow it in my game, because (as I've said), I think that that goes against what I see as the feel of psi. If my player asked me the question you just asked, my answer would be, "Buy more skill." :)

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

If you want to allow Trading Fatigue For Skill, that'd certainly be the easiest way. Boosting his skill up to 14 would get him closer to about a 40% chance of success.

I'd never allow it in my game, because (as I've said), I think that that goes against what I see as the feel of psi. If my player asked me the question you just asked, my answer would be, "Buy more skill." :)

Yeah. That's what I came to too.

Thanks for all the input. : )

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Edges

Let's say a PC telepath has a skill of 10 and he's facing someone with Will 15. IIRC, he has something like a 10% chance of success. But if the player who's PC it was said he was willing to burn as many FP as he could because the fate of the mission depended on this mind read, I'd want to give him a better chance. What do you think would be a fair way to give him this better chance?

I'd point out that he can try again and again every second until he gets in, each attempt costing him one fatigue.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I'd point out that he can try again and again every second until he gets in, each attempt costing him one fatigue.

Although the cumulative penalty for repeated attempts make success less and less likely.

[Edges]

Originally Posted by Not another shrubbery

Although the cumulative penalty for repeated attempts make success less and less likely.

Exactly...