Advantages vs Disadvantages

[anthony_barnstable]

The Super Munchkin card says that if you play it and have only one class you get all of its advantages and none of its disadvantages.

In my playgroup, this has led to much debate over what is an advantage and disadvantage. Would a disadvantage include:
-Any bonuses a monster gets against a given class
-Bad stuff that affects a certain class differently from others (in which case, would you be subject to the normal bad stuff?)
-Any curses that affect a particular class
-Any potions, weapons, armor, etc that cannot be used by a certain class
-The thief losing a level for failing to steal something (we say discarding a card is clearly a cost, rolling the due to potentially steal is an advantage, and there is arguement over whether or not losing a level for failure is an additional cost or a disadvantage)
-The wizard having to discard cards to charm
-Not being able to equip Warrior-only weapons (it's a severe disadvantage to the thief ... arguably)

[Brf]

Losing a level for failing a steal, and paying cards to power an ability are not "disadvantages", neither is not being able to use items usable only by another class.

[Clipper]

Agreed with Brf that those ones don't work. Similarly, a Wizard must always discard their hand to Charm. Disadvantages are things that specifically provide a bad thing to your Race or Class specifically. And as to your question, you would be subject to the normal Bad Stuff if your Half-Breed Race (or Super Class) was listed as suffering a worse condition.

[Ash Plissken]

Originally Posted by Clipper

And as to your question, you would be subject to the normal Bad Stuff if your Half-Breed Race (or Super Class) was listed as suffering a worse condition.

Where it gets interesting is when which Bad Stuff is "worse" comes down to a judgement call, e.g. "Wizards lose their Wizard class; all others lose 1 level." There might be situations where the single-class Super Munchkin Wizard would find either one of those consequences to be preferable. Then the question becomes, does he have to take the "generic" Bad Stuff, or does he get to choose?

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by Ash Plissken

Where it gets interesting is when which Bad Stuff is "worse" comes down to a judgement call, e.g. "Wizards lose their Wizard class; all others lose 1 level." There might be situations where the single-class Super Munchkin Wizard would find either one of those consequences to be preferable. Then the question becomes, does he have to take the "generic" Bad Stuff, or does he get to choose?

I would hope he's able to choose which is better given his current situation.

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by anthony_barnstable

Would a disadvantage include:
-Any bonuses a monster gets against a given class

Yes.

-Bad stuff that affects a certain class differently from others (in which case, would you be subject to the normal bad stuff?)

Yes.

-Any curses that affect a particular class

Yes.

-Any potions, weapons, armor, etc that cannot be used by a certain class

Yes.

-The thief losing a level for failing to steal something (we say discarding a card is clearly a cost, rolling the due to potentially steal is an advantage, and there is arguement over whether or not losing a level for failure is an additional cost or a disadvantage)
-The wizard having to discard cards to charm

Absolutely not. These are abilities that you'd have access to in any circumstance and the cost/result of using them is not a "disadvantage."

-Not being able to equip Warrior-only weapons (it's a severe disadvantage to the thief ... arguably)

No. If you are a Super Thief, you can use weapons that say they are not usable by a Thief (as asked above), but you can't use Items that say they can be exclusively used by a specific Class unless you have that Class. I.e., a Super Thief can't use an Item that says, "Usable by Warrior only."

[anthony_barnstable]

Thanks everyone for the answers! Those were pretty much what I was expecting would be the case, but one guy in our play group was trying to argue some of the others and now I can show him this thread to convince him. Anyone have any really good explanation with in-game rules for why these answers are correct?

[Clipper]

Originally Posted by anthony_barnstable

Thanks everyone for the answers! Those were pretty much what I was expecting would be the case, but one guy in our play group was trying to argue some of the others and now I can show him this thread to convince him. Anyone have any really good explanation with in-game rules for why these answers are correct?

There's no real place in the rules where advantages and disadvantages are defined, but MunchkinMan is one of the people here that is qualified to give official rulings, so you can take his word as having equivalent power to the rules.

[MunchkinMan]

Originally Posted by anthony_barnstable

Thanks everyone for the answers! Those were pretty much what I was expecting would be the case, but one guy in our play group was trying to argue some of the others and now I can show him this thread to convince him. Anyone have any really good explanation with in-game rules for why these answers are correct?

I could go with, "I said so," but in this case, it's really because Steve Jackson said so. We had many discussions, he and I, more than a few years ago when I first became the NetRep for Munchkin. Unfortunately, the rules don't cover what a Class or Race's disadvantage is, per se, but I can speak about designed intent: An advantage/disadvantage is something that affects the Race or Class from the outside. So, the inability to use an Item that the Race/Class was restricted from using is a disadvantage because the Item, not the Race/Class, says it can't be used, therefore an effect external to that Race or Class. The Thief's stealing and the Wizard's charming are internal to those Classes, so any costs/results of those are neither disadvantages nor advantages.

[jivesukka]

Originally Posted by MunchkinMan

No. If you are a Super Thief, you can use weapons that say they are not usable by a Thief (as asked above), but you can't use Items that say they can be exclusively used by a specific Class unless you have that Class.

Wow, I never knew that. I love checking this forum and learning new ways to destroy my opponents.