Bronze Age Greece On A Shoestring Budget

[Jukkaimaru]

Okay, I've been working out some costs for specific sorts of armor recently. I just did one for a late 1500s Japanese tosei-gusoku set that came out nicely. I then moved on to try to do Greek hoplite kit. I figured I'd lower the cost nicely by using a linothorax (Medium Layered Cloth) for the torso protection and stick to bronze greaves and helmet.

...Turns out that even with the nice inexpensive linothorax, the total cost of the armor is over 6000 GURPS $ (which is around 2000 more than the cost I ended up with for the Japanese armor)!

This seems...not quite right, to me. How would you, dear friends, deal with this in a game where the players were ancient Greek warriors (and thus at a TL that wouldn't likely give them $6000 to easily spend without heavy investment in Wealth)?

[DanHoward]

Greek hoplites are Iron Age. Subtract about 600-800 years for Bronze Age.

I did an early Greek hoplite and a late Greek hoplite for the upcoming Loadouts book. The early one clad all in bronze cost $9,292 but the late one, wearing a leather spolas cost $3,295. The Macedonian in layered linen armour cost $3,464.

If you had a "shoestring" budget then you wouldn't be a hoplite in the first place. You'd be a slave carrying the hoplite's armour until he is ready to put it on.

FWIW there is almost no documentation for Greeks wearing linen armour during the classical period. All of the Greek texts describe other cultures wearing them.

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Greek hoplites are Iron Age. Subtract about 800 years for Bronze Age.

I did an early Greek hoplite and a lte Greek hoplite for the upcoming Loadouts book. The early one clad all in Bronze cost $9,292 but the last one using a leather spolas cost $3295. The Macedonian in layered linen armour cost $3,464

Funnily enough I was just looking at the section in Low-Tech talking about that; you're dead right on their society technically being Iron Age but it also mentions a lot of Iron Age societies still used bronze for their armor and gear, so that only really helps slightly.

I guess I'll have to wait for that book and see exactly how you got those lower costs--I take it part of it has to do with not having to pony up for the gigantically expensive bronze Corinthian helm? ;)

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Jukkaimaru

Funnily enough I was just looking at the section in Low-Tech talking about that; you're dead right on their society technically being Iron Age

Hope so I wrote it :)

Here is a Macedonian phalangite wearing a linen kotthubos and a bronze kausia - pot helm with cheek guards

Chitôn (linen tunic) $48
Kotthubos $263
Ptyruges $38
Knèmides (bronze greaves) $2,200
Sandals $25
Kausia (bronze helmet) $890
TOTAL $3,464

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Hope so I wrote it :)

Well then! XD

Thanks for the numbers. Is this particular Loadouts book going to be another Low-Tech companion volume, sir?

[DanHoward]

Originally Posted by Jukkaimaru

Well then! XD

Thanks for the numbers. Is this particular Loadouts book going to be another Low-Tech companion volume, sir?

Don't know whether it is going to a part of the Loadouts series or part of the Low-Tech series. It uses the Low-Tech stats so I'm guessing it will be part of that series.

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

Hope so I wrote it :)

Here is a Macedonian phalangite wearing a linen kotthubos and a bronze kausia - pot helm with cheek guards

Chitôn (linen tunic) $48
Kotthubos $263
Ptyruges $38
Knèmides (bronze greaves) $2,200
Sandals $25
Kausia (bronze helmet) $890
TOTAL $3,464

And 2/3 of the cost is bronze greaves? Are greaves really twice as valuable in a fight as all the rest of your armor put together?

[Purple Haze]

I don't know if the Greeks did it but, to save weight the Romans would wear only the left greave (in a phalanx one fights presenting the shield and refusing the weapon). And for a similar but diferent reason, only the right vambrace (what is the Latin, "manica"?) (left arm is "safe" behind the shield).

Doesn't really work in the GURPS rules, just as easy to target the refused side as the presented one.

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by malloyd

And 2/3 of the cost is bronze greaves? Are greaves really twice as valuable in a fight as all the rest of your armor put together?

Real greaves are an exceptionally intricate piece of armour. The knee and thigh have a very complex shape, and any failure to match it brings pain. In addition, Greek greaves were usually sprung on. The only alternative was to just cover the front of the shins ... but that doesn't seem to have been very popular in the Classical and Hellenistic worlds. In GURPS terms, just protecting the Front lets you halve cost.

In that example, I think the helmet should have +9 CF for single-piece construction. A One-Piece (+9 CF) Bronze (+3 CF) Light Plate Skull (20%) would be $2600 plus a bit for padding. But maybe in the Hellenistic period someone in Macedonia started to make multi-piece helmet bowls ...

The first time and place where we have detailed figures for the price of different types of armour is England in 1300. We have very little evidence of the cost of Greek hopla, just that in the archaic the men who served as hoplites were not much poorer than the men who served as cavalry, and that the class expanded over time due to a combination of economic growth and reduced expectations about kit.

[Jukkaimaru]

Originally Posted by DanHoward

FWIW there is almost no documentation for Greeks wearing linen armour during the classical period. All of the Greek texts describe other cultures wearing them.

Linothoraces are a really, really hot button topic, honestly. I've heard people say exactly what you've said, I've heard others claim there are over 70 primary sources in Greek literature and examples on pottery showing them in use by Greeks. I actually don't really know which to believe; I was just using it to try to drop the price a bit. XDD