Playable approximation for Buying a Spaceship

[SCAR]

In a Space setting, owning a spaceship is a fairly common character trait, but the existing GURPS rules don’t support such a concept that well.
These rules attempt to create a playable approximation which can be used as a starting point for such a character concept.

I’ve used the sample spaceships in Spaceships 2-6 to get a rough cost for ‘average’ spaceships, and PK’s House Rule for Trading Points for Money to get a point cost from $ value.

The Rule:

An ‘average’ SM+6 Spaceship at a Campaign TL of 9 costs [50] points.
Note, the TL is that of the Campaign used to calculate the Starting Wealth, not the TL of the Spaceship!
Each +1 to SM costs an additional [10] points.
Each +1 to Campaign TL reduces the cost by [5] points.
Subtract the Points spent on Personal Wealth (e.g. [20] points for a Wealthy character), to a minimum of [5] points.

For Example:

A TL10 Character with Comfortable Wealth, could own an SM+8 personal Yacht for [55] points (on top of their [10] points for Comfortable Wealth).
A TL10 Wealthy Character could own an SM+9 Tramp Freighter for [55] points.

The inner workings:

Cost for an ‘average’ spaceships (which primarily means not military or highly specialised spaceships) roughly scales with Size (SM): $6M will get you an ‘average’ SM+6 Spaceship, $20M for an SM+7, $60M for an SM+8, and $200M for an SM+9.
I figure SM+6 to SM+9 is the likely size range for a privately owned vessel.

Examples:
The Maltese Falcon-Class Yacht [SS2.p15] is SM+8, TL10^ and Costs $52.2M (close to our $60M)
The Kiev-Class Farhauler [SS2.p6] is SM+9, TL10^ and Costs $139.7M (within the $200M approximation)

Using PK’s Trading Points for Money, the point cost from various Wealth Levels, and TL Starting Wealth gives an average point cost, and the variance for each SM and TL Step.

Examples:
A TL10 Character with Comfortable Wealth, could get $52.2M as starting wealth for [54] points.
A Wealthy TL10 Character could get $139.7M as starting wealth for [55] points.

These figures are significant approximations, with very specific break points – e.g. if you’re paying points for a $200M Spaceship, you might want something close to that value (which $140M maybe isn’t). If the GM is supplying the list of ‘allowed’ spaceships with point costs, they can modify the spacecraft or point costs if desired.

These rules also assume the PC(s) are buying a new full cost spaceship, but it’s simple to modify them – the +1 to SM, equates to x3 in Cost for [10] points. Reversing this, a ‘used’ spaceship could sell for 1/3 Cost and reduce the point cost by [-10], for 1/10th the Cost reduce the point cost by [-20]. Such ‘cheap’ spacecraft probably have more than a few problems and quirks which will need constant maintenance and repair (Spaceships 2 Chapter 2 for further details and ideas).

The point cost can be split between the PC’s.
If they have different starting Wealth levels, you could split the cost and then subtract each PC’s personal wealth level cost (still Min [5] points each) to get the cost of their share – assuming they have an even share.
(I’m not sure how balanced this last might be for different starting Wealths!, use GM’s judgement).

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by SCAR

The point cost can be split between the PC’s.
If they have different starting Wealth levels, you could split the cost and then subtract each PC’s personal wealth level cost (still Min [5] points each) to get the cost of their share – assuming they have an even share.
(I’m not sure how balanced this last might be for different starting Wealths!, use GM’s judgement).

This last really doesn't look like it will work for PC's with different starting wealth - so I'm not sure how to handle that.
If all PC's have the same Starting Wealth, subtract that from the cost before splitting.
e.g. An SM+9 Courier at TL10 would cost [75] points; Split between 5 Average Wealth PC's that would be [15] each, between 5 Comfortable PC's, it would be [13] each.

[kdtipa]

I'm not sure I agree that owning a space ship would be "common". And in a campaign would each character have the option of owning their own ship? Do they just stick to their own ship? Does one character pay enough to have a ship big enough for the other's ships to dock in it?

More importantly, in the campaign, is there an expectation by the GM that the characters will have a ship to get around with? If so, I wouldn't bother charging character points... I'd just design the ship and let them have it. It's a campaign trait.

If the characters don't by default have a ship, and there's commercial space travel, they can just use that for space travel... and then if they decide to buy a ship, I'd probably have it play out in session. If their wealth is enough to buy one together, I'd let them do that. I let them apply for a "car-loan" so to speak if they thought of that. I'd let them choose other means of obtaining the ship if they wanted. It can be an interesting part of the story.

I'm not sure I'd charge points for a ship.

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by kdtipa

I'm not sure I agree that owning a space ship would be "common".

In many settings, like Star Wars, owning a ship is no more costly than owning a car or truck. If you want to support the buying of spaceships with starting cash, simply price them as cars and trucks. If you want to distinguish them from actual cars and trucks, make them a little more expensive.


GURPS costs for spaceships are realistic (more or less). Less-than-spectacularly-rich individuals owning spaceships is not realistic, but it is cinematic. In cinematic settings, drop the price of spaceships.

[SCAR]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

In many settings, like Star Wars, owning a ship is no more costly than owning a car or truck. If you want to support the buying of spaceships with starting cash, simply price them as cars and trucks. If you want to distinguish them from actual cars and trucks, make them a little more expensive.


GURPS costs for spaceships are realistic (more or less). Less-than-spectacularly-rich individuals owning spaceships is not realistic, but it is cinematic. In cinematic settings, drop the price of spaceships.

This is it, and the real issue is figuring a reasonable Cost in both $ and Points.

Buying sufficient Wealth to buy a Spaceship (even at a reduced cost) is expensive in points, and has other consequences - Why does a Multimillionaire want to fly around in a beat up old tramp Freighter, scrapping a living transporting cattle and/or wobbly headed dolls?

Spaceships 2 has some rules/options for Buying or Financing a Spaceship; these are an alternative approach, which does not require anything above Average wealth and a load of points to buy a ship.

[aesir23]

You could allow Wealth (with Conditional Ownership from Spaceships 2) to be purchased with Debt as a single meta-trait. This serves as a good campaign motivator, since they'll have to take jobs to pay down the debt.

Alternately, in some campaigns (where there's no space combat, and the spaceships just a place to stay and a way to get around) you could just fold it into cost of living--just set aside 80% of their starting wealth and say that they don't have another home or vehicle.

Perhaps with something analogous to the Base perk from Supers.

[schmeelke]

Originally Posted by SCAR

Why does a Multimillionaire want to fly around in a beat up old tramp Freighter, scrapping a living transporting cattle and/or wobbly headed dolls?

"Madness? Have you looked at this scan carefully, Doctor? At his face? It's love, in point of fact. Something a good deal more dangerous." (Firefly FTW!)

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by SCAR

This is it, and the real issue is figuring a reasonable Cost in both $ and Points.

Pretty much. You have two sets of currencies here $ and points. If you set different exchange rates for them for spaceships and everything else, you will see people buy in one and sell in the other.

If you want spaceships not to cost as many points as levels of Multimillionaire, you either need to lower the cash price of spaceships so they don't cost multimillions, which may be unrealistic, or you need to put a bunch of limits on your Ship Owner advantage that somehow prevent selling the ship for more than thousands, but still charge the buyer multimillions in the same transaction, which is definitely unrealistic, but might be fine anyway - essentially it's a kind of Pact with the GM (I won't even try to sell the ship)

Just giving the PCs the ship for a campaign that assumes one amounts to this later case, you're charging 0 points for whatever the ship is worth with the effective pact that selling the ship will end the campaign. Personally I prefer that, the ship is normally central to the campaign plan after all. And where it isn't *not* having a ship is pretty central to the campaign plan - your political intrigue or city cops or high-school romance campaign plan isn't going to work if the players go and buy a cargo ship and start sailing the world either.

[panton41]

Originally Posted by Stormcrow

In many settings, like Star Wars, owning a ship is no more costly than owning a car or truck. If you want to support the buying of spaceships with starting cash, simply price them as cars and trucks. If you want to distinguish them from actual cars and trucks, make them a little more expensive.


GURPS costs for spaceships are realistic (more or less). Less-than-spectacularly-rich individuals owning spaceships is not realistic, but it is cinematic. In cinematic settings, drop the price of spaceships.

For Star Wars specifically there's Other Games that list prices that you could simply use. Another idea is to define a few of the iconic ships in Spaceships, check the Other Game prices and find a divisor to make ship prices fit.

More generically, decide how much you want ships to cost, find a divisor to make the Spaceships price come into line with it, then apply consistently... or not and make certain types of vessel inexplicably cost significantly more than others despite similar specs. That might mean a SM+8 Hercules-class tramp freighter costs $50,000 while the SM+8 Plenty-class Fleet Replenishment craft somehow costs $7.6 million with minimal difference in specs.

In my tramp freighter game I tend to reduce the price of the ship, then make the player buy it with the options in SS2. For military games I assume it's part and parcel with the player's Rank and role in the game (fighter pilots or "Honor Harrington" style games) or simply a backdrop (Star Trek style game where PCs are senior officers, but not the captain).

[Stormcrow]

Originally Posted by ciaran_skye

For Star Wars specifically there's Other Games that list prices that you could simply use. Another idea is to define a few of the iconic ships in Spaceships, check the Other Game prices and find a divisor to make ship prices fit.

I was thinking you could just identify your ship with a type of modern ground vehicle and pay its cost. A tramp freighter costs as much as a semi-truck ($60K); a teaser's ship is like a sports car ($85K); a low-cost cruise ship is like a bus ($120K).


Or, as in your divisor suggestion, you could simply read all Ms as Ks.


If you balk at the idea of reducing prices of arbitrary items, how about increasing the spending power of money on arbitrary items? Your star freighter is still worth $100M, but when you spend bucks on spaceships, they become Space Bucks, worth a thousand times more than Planetside Bucks.


It's completely unrealistic, but then so is the idea of your average slob owning his own spaceship.