[Spaceships] Ornithopter Wings no longer TL5+2!

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

Apparently, we can get a TL8 ornithopter drivetrain after all. Just takes some polishing to mature.

Thoughts?
Thanks in advance!

[vierasmarius]

Well, I'd call it at least TL9 for the purpose of practical uses. Remember that flying toys have been around since ancient times (such as this early Chinese bamboo helicopter), so I have no problem allowing tiny applications to exist before a full-scale design is close to feasible. It is unfortunate that Spaceships 7 doesn't give an alternate TL for an Ultra-Tech ornithopter though. Especially considering that the quote right next to the system description is from Dune, a decidedly UT setting (if somewhat anachronistic at times).

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

Well, I'd call it at least TL9 for the purpose of practical uses. Remember that flying toys have been around since ancient times (such as this early Chinese bamboo helicopter), so I have no problem allowing tiny applications to exist before a full-scale design is close to feasible. It is unfortunate that Spaceships 7 doesn't give an alternate TL for an Ultra-Tech ornithopter though. Especially considering that the quote right next to the system description is from Dune, a decidedly UT setting (if somewhat anachronistic at times).

The issue is that flapping wings are very efficient and maneuverable at small sizes. It will always be at best a gimmick for anything approaching human sizes, and at worst close to impossible.

[vierasmarius]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

The issue is that flapping wings are very efficient and maneuverable at small sizes. It will always be at best a gimmick for anything approaching human sizes, and at worst close to impossible.

True. While not strictly superscience, practical (large) ornithopter wings are highly cinematic. Certain sympathetic technologies (such as ultra-efficient Nanomaterial "Muscles") could make it more useable. In Dune it was hinted that Ornithopters used their wings mostly for maneuvering, and had jets for cruising flight.

[Daigoro]

I thought you must've been talking about the human bird wings guy.

Which surprisingly turns out to be fake.

[RyanW]

Originally Posted by vierasmarius

True. While not strictly superscience, practical (large) ornithopter wings are highly cinematic. Certain sympathetic technologies (such as ultra-efficient Nanomaterial "Muscles") could make it more useable. In Dune it was hinted that Ornithopters used their wings mostly for maneuvering, and had jets for cruising flight.

A sort of active geometry would also be useful, changing angle of attack, camber, sweep, dihedral, etc. on the fly (no pun intended).

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by RyanW

A sort of active geometry would also be useful, changing angle of attack, camber, sweep, dihedral, etc. on the fly (no pun intended).

Spaceship's maneuvering systems might be a vague equivalent for now. It's what I added to my giant golem bird to make it feel more "flappy".

[Anthony]

Originally Posted by Flyndaran

The issue is that flapping wings are very efficient and maneuverable at small sizes.

No it isn't. The issue is that we have poor actuator technology relative to our rotary engine technology, and therefore a helicopter does a better job than flapping wings. Biology has good actuators and lousy rotary systems, and thus favors wings. It's pretty much the same reason we like wheels better than legs.

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by Anthony

No it isn't. The issue is that we have poor actuator technology relative to our rotary engine technology, and therefore a helicopter does a better job than flapping wings. Biology has good actuators and lousy rotary systems, and thus favors wings. It's pretty much the same reason we like wheels better than legs.

Wings also add a lot of weight and need to handle a lot of stress. This is easier for smaller objects then larger ones.

[spacemonkey]

scaling up doesn't always work, look into the square-cube law