[DF] Powers Great and Small

[Humabout]

I'm slowly piecing together a DF-inspired setting and was wondering if anyone has ever run that sort of game, but included the Cosmic Tiers from Powers Great and Small (GURPS Powers, p. 31)?

If you have, how did it play out, and if you haven't what's your impression of making some power sources more effective than others?

[Anders]

I'd group it as:

Cosmic
Divine
Magic & Druid
Spirits
Bard, Chi & Ninja

Cosmic is obviously highest. Divine draws upon the power of the gods. Magic & Druid draw upon the existence of powerful naturally occuring fields. Spirits draw on very minor spirits. Bard, Chi & Ninja are the effects of special training.

[Humabout]

That's sort of ho wI saw it, but I was wondering if anyone thinks it would affect play. Would fewer players want ninjas because any other power source would trump them? Would people who favor certain wizard builds abandon them for clerics in order to grab a higher tier cosmic? Would the tiers not make much difference at all over the course of a game, and largely be a point sink (largely GM-dependent, of course)?

What sort of things should concern me about making powers inequal?

[Anders]

Originally Posted by Humabout

That's sort of ho wI saw it, but I was wondering if anyone thinks it would affect play. Would fewer players want ninjas because any other power source would trump them? Would people who favor certain wizard builds abandon them for clerics in order to grab a higher tier cosmic? Would the tiers not make much difference at all over the course of a game, and largely be a point sink (largely GM-dependent, of course)?

What sort of things should concern me about making powers inequal?

The major thing I see is that inequal powers will mean adding Cosmic modifier to everything and everyone, so all the templates will be screwed up. Otherwise... yeah, you might get more clerics, but Power Investment would be 30% or something more expensive. That's a lot.

[Humabout]

Everytime I see that bit in Powers, I think to myself, "That would really fit <random idea>," but then when it comes to the implementation, I see what you just mentioned and shy away. I'm really trying to see if there's enough benefit to justify added level of complexity - especially in a game that's intended to be pretty simple.

[EDIT]
Fluff-wise, it is just as easy to say that regardless of how powerful a source is, its manifestation in the world is more greatly influenced by a PC's ability channel it. MEchanically, that's easily enough represented with the variety of talents we have at our disposal. And that simplicity usually serves as my justification for abandoning Powers Great and Small.

[Flyndaran]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

The major thing I see is that inequal powers will mean adding Cosmic modifier to everything and everyone, so all the templates will be screwed up. Otherwise... yeah, you might get more clerics, but Power Investment would be 30% or something more expensive. That's a lot.

I would want a wizard if only for the freedom to do, learn, and cast as I please without having to justify myself to my boss.
Independent contractor for the win.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

I'd group it as:

Cosmic
Divine
Magic & Druid
Spirits
Bard, Chi & Ninja

Cosmic is obviously highest. Divine draws upon the power of the gods. Magic & Druid draw upon the existence of powerful naturally occuring fields. Spirits draw on very minor spirits. Bard, Chi & Ninja are the effects of special training.

I don't really agree with the idea. In most of the source material, priests do not in fact blow away magicians. (If anything it's the reverse when it comes to evil magicians although there is a tendency for good magicians to be wimpy magicians.). And it's very, very hard to mess with the powers of someone who gets his woo-woo internally.

[Anders]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I don't really agree with the idea. In most of the source material, priests do not in fact blow away magicians. (If anything it's the reverse when it comes to evil magicians although there is a tendency for good magicians to be wimpy magicians.). And it's very, very hard to mess with the powers of someone who gets his woo-woo internally.

It's possible. I'm toying with a TL1 setting right now, and that's one where priests do blow magicians away. That possibly influenced.

What would your hierarchy look like?

[starslayer]

I generally put wizard above priest in my settings.

Wizard- directly access power for whatever ends you see fit.

Cleric- Your god accesses power, transmits it to you (flavouring it with the god's uniqueness), and you use that.

It's kinda like an ICE and an electric car powered by a gas generator.

Internal combustion engine accesses gasoline directly, gets results, efficency is low.

Electric car is ultimately still powered by burning gas, but the generator runs at peak efficiency and thus makes far better use of the same gas; however there are now multiple points of failure for the car to be driveable.

Similarly; the wizard directly uses ambient manna to work magic, but is not efficient at it compared to an immortal god entity.

Immortal god entity very effectively accesses ambient manna, and sends the power so derived to its worshipers, however if something interrupts either the dieties conversion of ambient manna to power, or the transfer of power to worshiper cleric spells won't work (IE- someone locks your god away, disrupts its power, your in low sanctity, etc). Upside, you don't need manna where you are RIGHT NOW, and it's generally easier to make sure your god is in a safe manna rich area, then it is to always adventure in such.

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

It's possible. I'm toying with a TL1 setting right now, and that's one where priests do blow magicians away. That possibly influenced.

It's the same in my Ärth setting. Divine pwns magic if the power levels are equal. Maybe even when Divine is slightly lower. It costs more, though (in GURPS you'd simulate that with Cosmic) and is subject to periodic divine oversight, but not case-by-case-basis "no you don't". Anyone who has one or more Divine powers is free to abuse them first and then suffer the consequences later, rather than your patron god or patron angel stepping in and preventing you from doing something inappropriate with your power at all.

In GURPS terms that's probably some kind of Pact Limitation.

As for power tiers in my Ärth setting, I've got three, not counting "arcane" magic which is skill-based:

Low tier: Lunar (think druidic) and Bardic (don't think D&D bards; DF bards aren't a very good match either).
Mid tier: Virgin Powers (think unicorn-riding healers) and Royal Powers (think Aragorn)
High tier: Divine.

Higher tiers are more powerful, and have higher energy point totals but recharge more slowly, so e.g. Divine has a huge can of whoopass to unleash, but once unleashed it trickles back very slowly. So save it for the Balrog. Lunar and Bardic lend themselves to more frequent and more routine usage, with Virgin and Royal being being intermediate cases.