Sino-Atlantic martial arts

[whswhs]

I've settled on the campaigns for my next cycle, and one will be something I've wanted to do for quite a while: A campaign set in Ming-3, the Chinese-dominated alternate history in GURPS Alternate Earths 2. Specifically, I plan to have it be a fairly swashbuckling campaign, taking place during a time of troubles. But that means I need to deal with martial arts. The brief account in the sourcebook mentions the Irish art of si lei li, but there are a lot of other sources for traditions of swordplay and other forms of combat. So what would be some possible arts? Which of the ones in Martial Arts would fit, and what other arts might have been invented? Any of you who know the subject better than I do are invited to speculate. . . .

Bill Stoddard

[Icelander]

What's the TL?

And at what time did the Chinese conquer the Isles? How long have they been there?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Icelander

What's the TL?

The book says TL4 in theory but TL5 in industrial processes. But the weapons technology seems more like TL3 incendiaries for the most part; firearms seem less convenient than at the real TL5.

And at what time did the Chinese conquer the Isles? How long have they been there?

The first clash between the Chinese and Portuguese fleets was in 1510. The English submitted to Chinese oversight in 1588; they still have a nominal monarchy, but they're basically a "native kingdom." The current year is 1859, so the Chinese have been there for a quarter millennium.

France became a direct part of the Chinese Empire after King Luwei's rebellion was defeated in 1704. Chinese rule of Spain was consolidated as early as 1523.

Bill Stoddard

[SolemnGolem]

In such a world, I'd imagine seafaring would be key. The likely path of iconic Chinese martial arts would likely owe less to Buddhist monasteries than to shipboard swordsmen. Bladed weapons would likely dominate instead of the evolved farm implements of Shaolin. Also, acrobatics would likely focus on balance on a rocking deck, or rigging maneuvers. Cinematic swinging off ropes and cutting through sails could all be common sights; you might even get away with a rule-of-cool justification for real-life wire-fu, hanging off ropes and harnesses. Most seamen would probably also learn brawling or some makeshift martial art using belaying pins, which are less likely to injure the unskilled user than are swords.

Land armies would more likely have a focus on simple rifle or musket training (perhaps Zhuge crossbows) rather than flashy melee skirmishes, but in a heroic context, players could engage in the time honored champion vs. champion matches to spare the large scale destruction of actual army vs. army warfare.

Fireworks technology also gave way to naval gunpowder weapons, including a two stage surface skimming missile intended to hole a ship just above waterline.

Stylistically, in our timeline many styles made claims of invincibility to bullets, especially around the time of the Qing dynasty and Taiping rebellion. Something similar could have taken root much earlier in Ming 3. Some of it might even be effective...

For added irony, the Chinese pirate or privateer crews may make use of stimulants to increase combat effectiveness. They might even start up a black market trade, shipping illegal drugs into Britain and turning all the English into hopeless addicts.

[Icelander]

Odds are that British backsword and sabre styles would still exist, but would have been mixed with Chinese weapon-based styles. I agree that seafaring Chinese styles would be far more common than ones originating in monasteries and that, to me, suggests that Guangzhou/'Cantonese' styles would be prevalent. Nanquan and Hakka Kuen and so forth.

Given the early change-point, though, pretty much no martial art style we know in its modern form would realistically evolve unchanged. Taking some Chinese names that seem attractive to you and making up styles to suit the various tactical needs in your campaign is not less realistic than anything else. Make sure to emphasise how some are born of cosmopolitan sailors adapting what works and others have nationalistic origins, making outrageous claims about the efficiency of their 'native' English backsword or Portuguese smallsword against foreign styles.

In our world, a style born from the fusion between Western fencing and Eastern martial arts is escrima, for example. A lot of the styles that are popular with sailors will be similar in game terms, though it is likely that the vocabulary and specific quirks will be different.

[martinl]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I've settled on the campaigns for my next cycle, and one will be something I've wanted to do for quite a while: A campaign set in Ming-3, the Chinese-dominated alternate history in GURPS Alternate Earths 2. Specifically, I plan to have it be a fairly swashbuckling campaign, taking place during a time of troubles. But that means I need to deal with martial arts. The brief account in the sourcebook mentions the Irish art of si lei li, but there are a lot of other sources for traditions of swordplay and other forms of combat.

IIRC, AE2 implies that the setting has a reversal of OTL's martial arts distribution of the time. The Chinese have little use for such things - they use guns. Their barbarous European subjects have a wide array of them, developed and practiced outside of the bounds of a law that would prefer them to have (edit) no (\edit) martial options at all.

Since the divergence was so far back and thorough, you can probably extrapolate almost anything you want. The QnD way would be to just rename a few existing styles that are already appropriate for the practitioners in question. I lean towards stick based fighting styles, because no weapon law can effectively outlaw the stick.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by martinl

IIRC, AE2 implies that the setting has a reversal of OTL's martial arts distribution of the time. The Chinese have little use for such things - they use guns. Their barbarous European subjects have a wide array of them, developed and practiced outside of the bounds of a law that would prefer them to have martial options at all.

Since the divergence was so far back and thorough, you can probably extrapolate almost anything you want. The QnD way would be to just rename a few existing styles that are already appropriate for the practitioners in question. I lean towards stick based fighting styles, because no weapon law can effectively outlaw the stick.

That's a very good point.

It is not any more unlikely than the setting in general that Christian monks have become linked to nationalistic underground movements and developed martial arts with mystical connotations. Depending on how you and your players feel about conscious plays on this reverse of history, you could have 'Fist of the Lord' boxing (thoroughly adapted to fight the Chinese conquerors, of course), 'Good Shepherd' quarterstaff fighting (as acrobatic as you wish, really) and 'Sacred Path' grappling and joint manipulation. The wandering friar who is a master of a secretive martial arts style could be a Western trope in this world.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by Icelander

It is not any more unlikely than the setting in general that Christian monks have become linked to nationalistic underground movements and developed martial arts with mystical connotations. Depending on how you and your players feel about conscious plays on this reverse of history, you could have 'Fist of the Lord' boxing (thoroughly adapted to fight the Chinese conquerors, of course), 'Good Shepherd' quarterstaff fighting (as acrobatic as you wish, really) and 'Sacred Path' grappling and joint manipulation. The wandering friar who is a master of a secretive martial arts style could be a Western trope in this world.

Oh, I like that. But I'd prefer Latin names, which are cool and mystical and hard for the Chinese to pronounce.

But I think there ought to be fencing-like styles. And perhaps an "art of cloak and dagger" used by secretive Western assassins.

Bill Stoddard

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by whswhs

Oh, I like that. But I'd prefer Latin names, which are cool and mystical and hard for the Chinese to pronounce.

Quite right. Manus Dei, Bonus Pastor, Via Sacra and so forth.

Originally Posted by whswhs

But I think there ought to be fencing-like styles. And perhaps an "art of cloak and dagger" used by secretive Western assassins.

Fencing ought to be easy. The Chinese arrive back when the rapier is about to come into fashion. Simply decide what kind of blades you think ought to be in fashion now and extrapolating the style from there, adding some Chinese elements and such, isn't hard.

What are the armed forces of Europe like? Do they have any or are there only Chinese units stationed there? Do the Western barbarians serve in the Imperial armies?

[aesir23]

The so-called Wudang Sword styles probably use Jiann with rapier or saber skills. It's highly moble and acrobatic -- it would be great for swashbuckling.

It's possible that fashion would dictate that the jiann become the side-arm of the aristocracy in a China emergant Europe.

I have a writeup of Wudang Sword Style, but I don't want to post it here (I'm hoping to write an article or book expanding Taoist styles for GURPS some day).

I'll PM it to you for your game, of you promise not to make it avaiable online until I give up my dream of writing for GURPS.