[Social Engineering] Can you use "Cutting Out" with Empathy?

[NineDaysDead]

Can you use "Cutting Out" with Empathy when judging approachability? What if your Empathy is skill based?

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Can you use "Cutting Out" with Empathy when judging approachability? What if your Empathy is skill based?

I don't understand the meaning of "your Empathy is skill based." Other than that, by the RAW, the answer would be no, you can't, since Empathy is neither Per-based nor a skill, but I don't see any obvious problems if you allow it as a house rule.

Bill Stoddard

[Langy]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't understand the meaning of "your Empathy is skill based." Other than that, by the RAW, the answer would be no, you can't, since Empathy is neither Per-based nor a skill, but I don't see any obvious problems if you allow it as a house rule.

Bill Stoddard

Some variants of Empathy require you to use a skill, rather than just roll against IQ. For example, the variant in Psionic Powers.

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't understand the meaning of "your Empathy is skill based."

Switching from an attribute roll to a hard skill roll is a 0% enhancement. See "Skills for Everyone" in Powers.

Example: Healing is based on IQ. If the GM requires skills to use psi powers, a psychic healer with Healing must roll against Healing (IQ/Hard) to use his ability – or at IQ-6 if untrained. In either case, his Healing Talent gives a bonus.

Originally Posted by whswhs

Other than that, by the RAW, the answer would be no, you can't, since Empathy is neither Per-based nor a skill,

It can be both Per-based and/or a skill:

Empathy (Based on Per +20%; Skill-Based +0%) [18] + Empathy (Per/Hard) Default Per-6


I'm not sure why it would need to be based on Per since empathy uses IQ when judging approachability.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

Empathy (Based on Per +20%; Skill-Based +0%) [18] + Empathy (Per/Hard) Default Per-6


I'm not sure why it would need to be based on Per since empathy uses IQ when judging approachability.

As I said, if you want to houserule it, I don't see any obvious harm in it.

On the other hand—since when is Empathy a skill? My understanding is that you need to pick out one of the existing skills; so, for example, you might roll vs. Per-based Sex Appeal or Per-based Merchant.

Bill Stoddard

[NineDaysDead]

Originally Posted by whswhs

On the other hand—since when is Empathy a skill?

I alread told you, "Skills for Everyone" in Powers [p. 162]. I even gave you an Example from the book:

Originally Posted by Powers, Page 162

Example: Healing is based on IQ. If the GM requires skills to use psi powers, a psychic healer with Healing must roll against Healing (IQ/Hard) to use his ability – or at IQ-6 if untrained. In either case, his Healing Talent gives a bonus. far beyond the capabilities of those limited to just attributes and Talent.

See there's the "Healing" skill.

Originally Posted by whswhs

My understanding is that you need to pick out one of the existing skills; so, for example, you might roll vs. Per-based Sex Appeal or Per-based Merchant.

I think your understanding could do with reviewing "Skills for Everyone" in Powers.

[whswhs]

Originally Posted by NineDaysDead

I think your understanding could do with reviewing "Skills for Everyone" in Powers.

Probably. I haven't had occasion to look at Powers in a year and a half.

The other thing I would say, though, is that Social Engineering is explicitly about things that people do with social skills. It's not mainly intended to discuss powers. I made an exception for Empathy, in quite a few places, because Empathy (a) is often a simple advantage rather than a power, (b) even as a power, is used mainly to boost social interaction, and (c) is a suitable model for what can be done with Body Language under the right conditions. Going into the domain of defining an actual psionic power with a list of modifiers is really getting out of the territory of Social Engineering. The option of an influence power is noted briefly on p. 18, and Empathy is listed as a suitable advantage there.

If someone writes a book on social superpowers, the kind of thing you're describing would make sense to put in there. In the meantime, I'll stand by saying that it's not part of the RAW in Social Engineering, but that I don't see any harm in your houseruling to include it.

Bill Stoddard