Lances

[Jeminai]

I seem to remember that a rider using a lance could use the ST of his horse when figuring damage. Am I mistaken or was this taken out in 4e

[Rhino]

IIRC in 4th Edition the damage of a lance on horseback is based on either your ST or your velocity, not on the horse's ST.

[ericbsmith]

If you look up the Lance on the Weapons Table on p. 272 it has a note [9] which points you to p. 397 and has the rules for Lance damage on a mount. Base thrust dice are based on Mounts mass and velocity, to whit:
(ST * Move)/100 dropping fractions
ST 25 mount which moved 8 yards/sec does:
(25 * 8)/100 = 2d thrust, plus 3 because the Lance does thr+3 damage.

[gilbertocarlos]

It was a 3th ed rule, but it didn't make much sense(because the speed of the horse didn't matter, and the damage was too high).

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by gilbertocarlos

It was a 3th ed rule, but it didn't make much sense(because the speed of the horse didn't matter, and the damage was too high).

Well, it did make sense of the rule that has tournament lances breaking at 15pts and thus limiting damage. If you look at the calcs in ericsmith's post above that (presumably deadly) lance only averages 10pts and can not exceed 15pts..

Moral: change one thing and you probably need to change the other things connected to it.

[Gold & Appel Inc]

Originally Posted by ericbsmith

If you look up the Lance on the Weapons Table on p. 272 it has a note [9] which points you to p. 397 and has the rules for Lance damage on a mount. Base thrust dice are based on Mounts mass and velocity, to whit:
(ST * Move)/100 dropping fractions
ST 25 mount which moved 8 yards/sec does:
(25 * 8)/100 = 2d thrust, plus 3 because the Lance does thr+3 damage.

AKA: The Slam Damage Formula, with +3 Impaling.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Gold & Appel Inc

AKA: The Slam Damage Formula, with +3 Impaling.

Yeah, same thing is allowed in MA. But here's a murphy: this rule means only the mass of the horse matters - the mass of the rider and armour has no effect; horses with identical final velocity and different rider masses do same damage.

[ericbsmith]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Yeah, same thing is allowed in MA. But here's a murphy: this rule means only the mass of the horse matters - the mass of the rider and armour has no effect; horses with identical final velocity and different rider masses do same damage.

Yeah, but the weight of rider and armor are pretty minimal variables in this formula. A Horse traveling the aforementioned 8yards/sec with ST25 does 2d damage. To bring that up to 3d damage at the same speed you'd need ST37.5, which is a very significant increase in mass. Given quadratic ST/HP that represents more than doubling (x2.25) the mass of the Horse, which no rider and armor are likely to do. At best there might be some edge cases (ST24 horse at Move 8) where a rider's weight could push it over the edge to the next die of damage.

[Fnugus]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Yeah, same thing is allowed in MA. But here's a murphy: this rule means only the mass of the horse matters - the mass of the rider and armour has no effect; horses with identical final velocity and different rider masses do same damage.

Perhaps it does up for this by the fact that rider might increase weight, but also encumbrance, thus decreasing speed. OTOH you could always just add together the weight of horse + stuff on it's back for a houserule.

[gilbertocarlos]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Yeah, same thing is allowed in MA. But here's a murphy: this rule means only the mass of the horse matters - the mass of the rider and armour has no effect; horses with identical final velocity and different rider masses do same damage.

You could house-rule that for every encumbrance after none, it increases the ST for slams by 10%.(So, a ST 20 horse at medium would have ST 24 for example)