One-handed or Two-handed sword, that is the question

[Carlos]

Greetings.

I'm gonna make a new character (again) and I'm facing a powerful dilemma. What is the best option: To use a one-handed sword or a two-handed sword?

By "best option", I guess I mean "the coolest option".

It's undeniable that a shield is of great help in low-tech/dungeon fantasy games. To block rains of arrows, fire balls (or other projectile spells) or dragon's fire breath is all that good.

And things get worse when you're a Mystic Knight, since defensive imbuements used with shields come to play. After all, it seems to me to be a waste of potential to not explore the best that mystic knight's imbuements have to offer, a combination of ofensive, defensive (with both armor and shield) and ranged imbues.

With such considerations, it seems pretty obvious that to use a sword and shield is the best choice. However, for all my RPG life before GURPS I always played with warriors using big swords which, IMHO, completely fulfill the "heavy fighter" archetype. And I strongly believe that Mystic Knights shares such trait with Knights.

And I get even more inspired when I look to this, this, this and this. All these images only reforces my old idea that to swing a great two-handed sword is just cooler than to use a sword and shield.

But somehow I still want to use a shield.

Fortunately, Mystics Knights have the upper hand here. They can use shields - even larger - while handling two-handed weapons thanks to Dancing Shield imbue. Unfortunately, once the shield is flying, you can't use any of those cool shield imbues like Energizing Defense and Widen Shield.

Since I'm not considering to play with a 4 arms Mystic Knight, I was thinking about the possibility to use a small shield strapped to the arm (something like Shiryu's small shield) while using a two-handed sword. According to GURPS Low-Tech rules, that's doable and gives a -2 penalty to weapon and shield skills.

However, it raises some questions:

1) The book says that the -2 penalty applies to weapon and shield skills, but that penalty would also apply for imbue skills used with the shield and sword?

2) That -2 penalty could be somehow removed? Perhaps with a perk or even a technique.

What do you think?

---

Ps.: While this thread involves imbuement rules and Dungeon Fantasy games, the main question here fits perfectly any low-tech game.

[Bruno]

If it helps for providing mechanical benefits to back up the "coolness" value of the two-handed swords, Martial-Arts suggests two-handed swords should get a reduced "repeat parry penalty" along with polearms et al - so -2/-4/-6/-8 not -4/-8/-12/-16.

Shield imbuements are awesome, but they're also yet more skills to learn. Consider sinking the points for shield skill and shield imbuements into armor imbuements instead, or money/wealth for heavier armor.

That said, shields are awesome.

I would rule, for my game, that if the Imbuements are DX based (As is the default for Mystic Knights) that the -2 definitely applies.

I might be induced to allow a technique for each skill to buy off the penalty as a power-up.

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by Bruno

If it helps for providing mechanical benefits to back up the "coolness" value of the two-handed swords, Martial-Arts suggests two-handed swords should get a reduced "repeat parry penalty" along with polearms et al - so -2/-4/-6/-8 not -4/-8/-12/-16.

Yes, I'm aware of that rule. Thanks anyway. ;)

Originally Posted by Bruno

Shield imbuements are awesome, but they're also yet more skills to learn. Consider sinking the points for shield skill and shield imbuements into armor imbuements instead, or money/wealth for heavier armor.

That said, shields are awesome.

I think that the cost factor is not a great problem because Mystic Knights are all about imbuements. Eldritch talent gives an amazing bonus to all imbuement skills, so even with a 1 point you still can have nice score.

Originally Posted by Bruno

I would rule, for my game, that if the Imbuements are DX based (As is the default for Mystic Knights) that the -2 definitely applies.

I might be induced to allow a technique for each skill to buy off the penalty as a power-up.

The problem is that the rule does not states that penalty to DX, but to melee and shield skills. On the other hand, that low-tech rule probably wasn't considering imbuement skills, so that's why I'm not sure.

[Gnomasz]

I'd say that two-handed swords are much cooler, but no arguments here - it's a matter of personal preferences.

But i see a solution to your problem. It uses Extra Arm advantage, but it doesn't make you a 4-handed monster. It's in the FAQ (third question).
I'd add to this build No Signature (so the arm is not visible), +20%, and Requires Dancing Shield Roll, -10% - for a total of -20%, or [8] for Can Imbue Dancing Shield advantage (you actually wield the shield, so you can imbue it; it should have -5% costs FP, too, but I hate limitations, that don't give a discount). And I would carry a shield in it normally, not parry with it - as an advantage, it shouldn't be a subject of imbuement.

[Anders]

What about the crazy neck strap that Low-Tech and LTC2 taught us to love? You get -3 to Block defense but DB still applies.

[Carlos]

Originally Posted by Gnomasz

I'd say that two-handed swords are much cooler, but no arguments here - it's a matter of personal preferences.

But i see a solution to your problem. It uses Extra Arm advantage, but it doesn't make you a 4-handed monster. It's in the FAQ (third question).
I'd add to this build No Signature (so the arm is not visible), +20%, and Requires Dancing Shield Roll, -10% - for a total of -20%, or [8] for Can Imbue Dancing Shield advantage (you actually wield the shield, so you can imbue it; it should have -5% costs FP, too, but I hate limitations, that don't give a discount). And I would carry a shield in it normally, not parry with it - as an advantage, it shouldn't be a subject of imbuement.

Hmmmmmm.... It seems to be too odd to the GM allow it...

Originally Posted by Asta Kask

What about the crazy neck strap that Low-Tech and LTC2 taught us to love? You get -3 to Block defense but DB still applies.

Well, I didn't learned that lesson.

Despite being realistic, controlling a shield with the neck seems to be very weird and aesthetically horrible (therefore, it doesn't look cool) in a dungeon fantasy game.

It seems I have no choice but give up the shield or the two-handed weapon idea.

[Kuroshima]

Originally Posted by Carlos

It seems I have no choice but give up the shield or the two-handed weapon idea.

Technically, I always imagine it as the shield hangs from the neck, BUT rests on the elbow and upper arm. Thus, it is controlled partly by the neck, party by the torso, and partly by the elbow and upper arm. Of course, I'm no hoplologist, and it it might be used in a different manner, but that's what I get from the description.

[Figleaf23]

Be strong enough to wield a 2-hand sword 1-handed, and carry a shield on your back for those times you are dishonourably attacked from a distance.

[Kromm]

In real life, the shield-hand weapon method was for (1) one-handed weapons (most often daggers), and (2) bows. For two-handed melee weapons, especially chopping weapons, the guard position would turn the shield wholly out of line, making it totally worthless, while holding the shield in line would take the weapon out of play. I'd rule that "two-handed sword with strapped-on shield" is legal, but that it has no effect . . . you either use the sword at full skill and get nothing (no DB, no block, etc.) out of the shield, or you use the shield at full skill and get nothing (no parry or attack) out of the sword. Decide which one you're using at the start of each turn, just as for any form change.

A guige would work fine with a two-handed weapon. If you don't think it would look cool enough, that's your call. Historically, users of big spears and even the occasional swordsman wore a shield this way. Advanced Guige Use (Low-Tech Companion 2, p. 19) covers all the complications, and I'd say that you could learn a Hard technique to buy off the -3 to Block, but there's nothing you could do about using your weapon on your shield side.

As for Imbuement Skills, they most closely resemble things like Breaking Blow and Power Blow, or even certain spells. Penalties to melee combat skills won't affect them unless they would also affect these other things. In general, this limits the meaningful penalties to those that affect DX and IQ, like shock and afflictions.

[Kromm]

Separate from the above, I'll echo the comments on two-handed weapons being very nice if you can afford to do without a shield. They enjoy damage and Reach advantages. If using all the rules in Martial Arts, they also give greater effectiveness in shoves, extra options for slams, and a significant advantage when parrying against multiple attacks or attackers. Moreover, they mean you need to get good at one skill instead of two; compare, say, Broadsword (A) DX+4 [16] & Shield (E) DX+4 [12] to Two-Handed Sword (A) DX+7 [28]. And of course you can Fast-Draw a sword in a hurry, but never a shield.

Shields are awesome, but two-handed weapons definitely have a strong niche if you wish to play a highly-skilled single-weapon specialist who controls the gap between himself and his foes, and wants lots of parries. In my last fantasy campaign, the two-handed sword guy got hurt less often than the more skilled sword-and-shield guy, except when he went All-Out. This was because he could constantly circle away, striking from Reach 2, and could invest all his points in just sword tricks (Enhanced Parry without Enhanced Block as well, sword perks, sword techniques, etc.), which meant that he had twice as many contingency plans for half as many skills.