Statting up the ability to bestow divine spells

[Michael_Malus]

Hey all. Been lurking for a while, first time posting.

While thinking about how gods and worshippers interacted, I was sidetracked into an attempt to work out the cost to play a god, with the traditional RPG staple of granting spells to his followers.

I'm currently looking at:

Bestow Power Investiture
Affliction (Advantage (Power Investiture), +100%; Extended Duration (Permanent, Irreversible), +300%; World-Spanning, +100%; Malediction, +200%; Long Range, +50%) [85]

And

Bestow @Spell@
Affliction (Advantage (@Spell@), +10%; Extended Duration (Permanent, Irreversible), +300%; World-Spanning, +100%; Malediction, +200%; Long Range, +50%) [76]

Assuming these can be taken as Alternative Attacks, this costs 85 points for the Power Investiture, plus sixteen points per spell.

On a tangentially related topic, using the Maintenance disadvantage, we can find the number of worshippers required to "power" a gods granting of these abilities. Power Investiture and a single spell costs 101 points. This takes somewhere from 801 to 1600 worshippers, with an hours worth of prayer daily.

How would you go about statting up an ability to perceive your followers across worlds, so you could target them? Maybe your followers can only gain new spells in areas consecrated to you, what kind of limitation would that be? Is my entire concept faulty? Any thoughts much appreciated.

EDIT:

Is it even legal to advantageously Afflict someone with a spell or skill, rather than a by-the-book, capital-A Advantage?

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by MichaelMalus

How would you go about statting up an ability to perceive your followers across worlds, so you could target them?

• Detect (Common) (Analyzing, +100%; Long-Range 2, +100%; Precise, +100%; Reflexive, +40%; Selective Area, +20%; World Spanning (Own and Others), +100%) [112]

"All Humans" is a (Common) category. "All Life" is a (Very Common) category. "All Followers and Worshipers" is a subset of "All Life", and so should be a (Common) category.

(Analyzing, +100%) isn't required, but would give you gobs of useful information about the follower/worshiper. You need (Precise, +100%) in order to use the Detect as a targeting sense.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by MichaelMalus

Bestow Power Investiture
Affliction (Advantage (Power Investiture), +100%; Extended Duration (Extended Duration, Permanent, Irreversible), +300%; World-Spanning, +100%; Malediction, +200%; Long Range, +50%) [85]

And

Bestow @Spell@
Affliction (Advantage (@Spell@), +10%; Extended Duration (Extended Duration, Permanent, Irreversible), +300%; World-Spanning, +100%; Malediction, +200%; Long Range, +50%) [76]

Assuming these can be taken as Alternative Attacks, this costs 85 points for the Power Investiture, plus sixteen points per spell.

'sup Mike Hammer!

Unless you want the classical "no takebacks for divine gifts" Hellenic feel, the Invetiture only needs the +150% permanent to meet the usual fantasy standard deal where a cleric can lose their powers for misconduct or becoming disqualified by losing their virginity or whatever.

Also, you don't need to afflict a spell on a cleric unless the deity wants them to have it right then; it could be revealed in a dream or in a flash of insight or an epiphany via a suitable form of Telecommunication, or "for free" if the user already has an oracular advantage like some forms of Blessed and of Wild Talent.

[Michael_Malus]

Originally Posted by Sunrunners_Fire

"All Humans" is a (Common) category. "All Life" is a (Very Common) category. "All Followers and Worshipers" is a subset of "All Life", and so should be a (Common) category.

All Followers and Worshipers, is, for most gods in most settings, a hell of a lot smaller category than All Humans. From the examples, and, failing that, the fact that anyone you're targeting either is, or soon will be, a subset of All Spellcasters, I'd call it a Rare category.

I'm not certain what (Analyzing, +100%) would give you, but I can see it showing you how worthy/devout/pure the worshipper is, so leave it in for now.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

'sup Mike Hammer!

Never heard of him before. Nice to know my name carried the weight of the pulp genre behind it.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Unless you want the classical "no takebacks for divine gifts" Hellenic feel, the Invetiture only needs the +150% permanent to meet the usual fantasy standard deal where a cleric can lose their powers for misconduct or becoming disqualified by losing their virginity or whatever.

Brings it down to 70 points plus thirteen points per spell.

Originally Posted by jeff_wilson

Also, you don't need to afflict a spell on a cleric unless the deity wants them to have it right then; it could be revealed in a dream or in a flash of insight or an epiphany via a suitable form of Telecommunication, or "for free" if the user already has an oracular advantage like some forms of Blessed and of Wild Talent.

Unless this was a 200-hour dream, flash, or epiphany, I don't see how they could "learn" it in that time. Or, to put it another way, I think what I've statted up is the ability to cause this insight, flash or epiphany.

[Michael_Malus]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

I doubt it. Of course I'd handle the issue of empowering followers with an Unusual Origin and buying those I empower as Allies.

But that would be sensible. And sensible is boring.

Originally Posted by Lamech

One thing though. Now the god can just give people any spell he wants (that he has). No need for study or spending CP. Power investiture is something any cleric can have, and they have whatever spells they need. No need to limit it to worthy clerics (just ones that do their freaking job), or ability to get insight and have new spells, or get spells from meditation, or prayer. The god just zots them and bam! Spells. A his favorite village about to get pillaged? BAM! All his followers there have the power of the greatest clerics.

A note from Powers I probably should have included in my original post:

To keep things fair, the GM might rule that the advantages take effect for only one minute times the margin of the HT roll, but let the recipient buy them “for real” if he has enough unspent points.

Also, characters being empowered in a moment of need, their powers fading after the moment has passed, is a fairly common trope.

Originally Posted by Lamech

If clerics can get spells from study or divine insight (CP) the god doesn't need to afflict those spells. The clerics got them via normal learning, similar to a wizard getting his spells.

Actually, per Thaumatology, they explicitly don't.

A priest may acquire a new spell simply by praying for it whenever he has points to spend. Teachers and study are thus unnecessary

and

Power Investiture benefits spells that can be “learned” without the difficulties that secular wizards sometimes suffer. There’s no ferreting out obscure texts, hiring teachers, etc. – just a good relationship with the deity, plus prayer, which can be attempted anywhere.

[Lamech]

Originally Posted by MichaelMalus

A note from Powers I probably should have included in my original post:


Also, characters being empowered in a moment of need, their powers fading after the moment has passed, is a fairly common trope.

Then this would give the god the ability to hand out temp powers.

Actually, per Thaumatology, they explicitly don't.

Magic 199, the GM is allowed to let them learn by 200 hours of contemplation. Sure its not the finding obscure texts, but really its not much different then if a wizard spent a few points of sig gear on a tome of pack of spells. Its not similar in that they need to find obscure tomes and rare teachers, but similar in that they can get a spell by spending a CP point or 200 hours. I don't think the god doesn't really need them to have anything more than religious rank: is a god.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by MichaelMalus

Unless this was a 200-hour dream, flash, or epiphany, I don't see how they could "learn" it in that time. Or, to put it another way, I think what I've statted up is the ability to cause this insight, flash or epiphany.

The essential information inherent to spells is not explicitly quantified, so it can be set arbitrarily for a given spell in a given setting. Presumably if anyone knows what it has to be it would the god who hands them out, so he can pass on the essential information to a mortal however deities usually pass on their inefffable messages in an arbitrarily short period of mortal time.

The mortal can then ponder this for 200 hours of prayer, recurrent dreams, visions, auspices, or whatever, until they gain sufficient insight into the kernel of divine wisdom to use it as a spell. Meanwhile, the divinity has gone on to other things, unless they really like to watch slow-paced training montages.

[Agemegos]

Originally Posted by MichaelMalus

Never heard of him before. Nice to know my name carried the weight of the pulp genre behind it.

"Hammer" would be malleus. Malus is an apple, or a bad thing.

[jeff_wilson]

Originally Posted by Brett

"Hammer" would be malleus. Malus is an apple, or a bad thing.

Isn't one of those "maalus"?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by MichaelMalus

Is it even legal to advantageously Afflict someone with a spell or skill, rather than a by-the-book, capital-A Advantage?

I doubt it. Of course I'd handle the issue of empowering followers with an Unusual Origin and buying those I empower as Allies.