Martial Arts, really confused.

[Hohenstadt]

Got the MA book 4th edition. Trying to learn GURPS, haven't played yet, thanks for your comments on this matter.

I don't quite get it. Even after searching the forums and reading other threads on this matter. Maybe I am just plain stupid about this or can't read right.

1st, why buy a style? What does it do for you? There's no extra damage or pluses to hit or increase in a stat or nothing. Can't you just buy the skills listed under a style outright? What's the advantage of buying a style?

2nd, once you buy a style, do you get 1 cp per skill listed invested in that skill? Then do you have to spend more cps in that skill to get it to the level you want? At what level does the skill come in at with that 1 cp paid for by buying the style?

3rd, There's something about perks costing 10 instead of 20? If you take style. What Perks? All Perks? Or do I have this wrong too.

Finally, what is Style Familiarity? What does this get you?

Can someone please explain in plain common language what I need to do?

[Akicita]

Originally Posted by Hohenstadt

1st, why buy a style? What does it do for you? There's no extra damage or pluses to hit or increase in a stat or nothing. Can't you just buy the skills listed under a style outright? What's the advantage of buying a style?

You can just buy the skills, and do not need to buy a style, unless your GM rules that in his campaign some skills can only be learned from specific schools or teachers.

2nd, once you buy a style, do you get 1 cp per skill listed invested in that skill? Then do you have to spend more cps in that skill to get it to the level you want? At what level does the skill come in at with that 1 cp paid for by buying the style?

In a sense, you don't buy the style. What you do is put at least one point into each of the required skills. The cost listed is the minimum number of points that takes.

3rd, There's something about perks costing 10 instead of 20? If you take style. What Perks? All Perks? Or do I have this wrong too.

Having the style does not change the cost of perks. It changes how many perks you are allowed to buy. If you don't know the style, you can only buy one perk for each twenty points you have put into combat skills. If you do know the style, you may buy one perk for each ten points in the skills of that style.

Finally, what is Style Familiarity? What does this get you?

The big thing it does is give you access to the skills and perks of your style, some of which may not be available outside of that style. (See question 1).

[Hohenstadt]

Akicita, Bruno. Thank you very much!! :)

Now, why couldn't the rule book just plainly say that?

[Wraithe]

Originally Posted by Hohenstadt

Akicita, Bruno. Thank you very much!! :)
Now, why couldn't the rule book just plainly say that?

Since everyone else answered the RAW of your question, I'll swing at this one.

Mostly because it's a "GURPS thing".

A large number of other RPG's tend to come out with supplements/expansions, etc. that "break" the previous rules/mechanics, so that you can do something you couldn't previously do.

GURPS tends to come out with materials that "refine" the Basic Set. They allow you to say, handle Fast Draw contests between multiple players with Fast Draw. They will not, generally, "break" existing information.

One excellent example would be how GURPS:Low Tech handled Melee Weapons weights, which were widely accepted to be too high in the Basic Set. They did NOT come out with a list of new, "corrected" weapons weights that contradict the Basic Set, they basically said "Oh, the weight in Basic is including the scabbard, here's how to figure what the weapon itself weighs". (Please note that I consider this to be simply ingenious, and love it)

So, the big thing to remember in GURPS is that you will never get something for nothing, and that the basic "generic-ness" of GURPS will always be there under the hood.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Hohenstadt

1st, why buy a style? What does it do for you? There's no extra damage or pluses to hit or increase in a stat or nothing. Can't you just buy the skills listed under a style outright? What's the advantage of buying a style?

Originally Posted by Hohenstadt

Finally, what is Style Familiarity? What does this get you?

Originally Posted by Hohenstadt

2nd, once you buy a style, do you get 1 cp per skill listed invested in that skill? Then do you have to spend more cps in that skill to get it to the level you want? At what level does the skill come in at with that 1 cp paid for by buying the style?

These three are closely linked.

A style is "One point in each of the primary skills, plus the Style Familiarity perk". One point on each of the skills gets you whatever one point in those skills would get you. No more, no less.

Style Familiarity means, among other things, that when fighting against other people trained in that style, you ignore -1 in Feint penalties, and -1 in Deceptive Attack penalties. You know their kung fu, they can't surprise you as much. See Martial Arts page 50.

Buying a style means primarily that you get that perk, and you get training (to the tune of at least one point) in the primary skills. You buy up the skills normally, because you've bought them normally. A style is just a kind of lens.

The secondary benefit of having bought them in a style, rather than individually, is that you can buy more perks. See below.

Originally Posted by Hohenstadt

3rd, There's something about perks costing 10 instead of 20? If you take style. What Perks? All Perks? Or do I have this wrong too.

Perks don't cost 20. Or 10. Perks cost 1 point (that's the definition of a perk). The description of style perks and what it means is on page 50, next to the Style Familiarity writeup.

The digest version is that Martial Arts recommends a limit of one combat perk per 20 points spent on combat skills. Basic Set already recommends a limit on perks. For every 10 points spent on a style, you can get another perk from the style list.

The list of perks starts on page 50.

I get the impression you missed that section, so try starting reading there :)

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Bruno

Basic Set already recommends a limit on perks.

Got a page reference for that? I didn't remember it as being in basic, and can't find it searching the PDFs.

[Kazander]

Originally Posted by johndallman

Got a page reference for that? I didn't remember it as being in basic, and can't find it searching the PDFs.

The perk limits are scattered in a few books.

This is Dr. Kromm's summary of the perk limits:
http://forums.sjgames.com/showpost.p...5&postcount=32

[Fnugus]

Originally Posted by Hohenstadt

Got the MA book 4th edition. Trying to learn GURPS, haven't played yet, thanks for your comments on this matter.

If you are brand new to GURPS, it's quite ambitious to dig through MA already. The combat rules can be difficult enought to fathom without all the extra detail and possibility in MA.

That said, it is my belief that styles are a collection of skills and techniques associated with that style. Of course you can just buy the skills individually, but the sections described give some logical guidelines to which skills are associated and in which order you learn them within that style.

The cost for styles, as written, are the cost of the basic elements of that style, added up. What exactly these are, can be read in the style description.

After that, you can spend CP normally to improve the skills and techniques. The styles are just packages that are logically associated with the style in question.

Perks always cost 1 point.

Style familiarity is useful when fighting against the style you take the perk for. It reduces the penalty you receive to your defences when your opponent attempts a feint or a Deceptive Attack. Also, if your character uses a style, he really ought to have the style famliarity for it, too. I think that style familiarity perk is required to learn the other perks associated with a style.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by Fnugus

If you are brand new to GURPS, it's quite ambitious to dig through MA already. The combat rules can be difficult enought to fathom without all the extra detail and possibility in MA.

QFT...

If you have some players to hand and can manage the time I would strongly recommend running a number of 1 on 1 mock combats...(don't even really need to do complex charater builds...just pick the basic stats and resonable weapons/equipment levels...shoot for a rough equivalency...then start experimenting with the inequalities!!)

First with just the basic combat rules...

Then with the Advanced Combat rules from Basic...

Then with the Martial Arts rules layered in...

Then with the Magic Rules layered in...

Then small group combats...

But there are a lot of rules to take all at once and seeing how the rules work on a combat map with dice can help lock things in the mind...and give a better appriciation of the next layer's likely effects...

Good Luck!!

[talonthehand]

1. If you've studied a style, you can improve any of the techniques of the style with points earned, if you haven't, you need outside instruction. Additionally, you can get more combat perks (but we'll go into that at question 3). You also have the Style Familiarity perk (question 4). For that matter, it can help flesh out the background of a character. Never ignore how useful backstory is.

2. Buying a style consists of spending at least one point on each required skill of the style, and buying the one point perk, Style Familiarity X. For instance, learning Aikijutsu takes two points, one for the style familiarity perk, and one point on its required skill (Judo). Spending that one point on Judo is no different than if you didn't have the style, you still know judo at DX - 2, and you can increase it as you see fit.

3. Perks are a second benefit to learning a style. It is suggested for Martial Arts campaigns to only allow one combat perk per 20 points spent on combat skills and techniques. Having a martial arts style allows you an additional combat perk per 10 points spent on that style's combat skills and techniques (but only perks listed for the style). A list of combat perks is in Martial Arts.

4. Style Familiarity is a perk that shows you're knowledgeable about a martial art style. It's needed for being considered a practitioner of the martial art, and additionally it lowers defensive penalties from co-practitioners.

I hope this answered some of your questions.