Surprise

[dgrm4]

Tonight we had a situation where the players(PCs) jumped up from behind a bar to "Surprise" some Mercenaries. Now these Mercs were expecting trouble, so this could be "Partial Surprise", however the rules seem to indicate there is always a chance of freezing. I don't see these Mercs freezing. I also don't see the PCs freezing either. What I did was allow the PCs to go first regardless of speed, and the NPC Mercs went last.

How do some of you handle suprise like this?

[sir_pudding]

Originally Posted by dgrm4

How do some of you handle suprise like this?

The contest of Sense rolls vs. Stealth or Camouflage replaces the surprise roll. If the ambushers succeed the targets are stunned as per Partial Surprise.

[dgrm4]

Originally Posted by sir_pudding

The contest of Sense rolls vs. Stealth or Camouflage replaces the surprise roll. If the ambushers succeed the targets are stunned as per Partial Surprise.

That can be extremely deadly in a modern gun fight. Even with Body Armor.

[tg_ambro]

Originally Posted by dgrm4

That can be extremely deadly in a modern gun fight. Even with Body Armor.

That's why people go to great lengths to preserve the element of surprise.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by dgrm4

That can be extremely deadly in a modern gun fight. Even with Body Armor.

That's why the element of surprise is so valuable. But note the effect of Combat Reflexes.

[Witchking]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

That's why the element of surprise is so valuable. But note the effect of Combat Reflexes.

emphasis mine

Of all the other benefits of Combat Reflexes (and there are threats a plenty out there try serach Combat Reflexes underpriced ;->)...the bonuses to avoid the freeze/recover from Stun are the Most Valuable IMHO...especiallydfor a IQ 10 (or less) Figther type.

I once ran a fantasy figher with only IQ 9 (would never do that again) if he didn't have Cbt Relexes he would never have made it.

Without CBT Reflexes get surprised and get hammered for a round...then start rolling hoping for that NINE. (could easily go another 2-3 rounds).


With CBT Relexes take your lumps for a round...DON'T roll that 16,17,18 and then move on....

It's the little bonuses that can make the difference....

[Figleaf23]

Originally Posted by Witchking

emphasis mine

Of all the other benefits of Combat Reflexes (and there are threats a plenty out there try serach Combat Reflexes underpriced ;->)...the bonuses to avoid the freeze/recover from Stun are the Most Valuable IMHO...especiallydfor a IQ 10 (or less) Figther type.

I once ran a fantasy figher with only IQ 9 (would never do that again) if he didn't have Cbt Relexes he would never have made it.

Without CBT Reflexes get surprised and get hammered for a round...then start rolling hoping for that NINE. (could easily go another 2-3 rounds).


With CBT Relexes take your lumps for a round...DON'T roll that 16,17,18 and then move on....

It's the little bonuses that can make the difference....

Dumb fighters who can't afford CR should consider this perk I invented:

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread...ppy#post621508

[Xplo]

Originally Posted by dgrm4

That can be extremely deadly in a modern gun fight. Even with Body Armor.

Yes, it can. It doesn't take more than a couple seconds of jumping out of your skin and panicking to get shot full of holes, does it?

This is why, unless you have the reflexes of a cat and the steely nerves of a.. a, uh.. really steely-nerved person (read: Combat Reflexes), it's a good idea to not be ambushed by people who mean to kill you as quickly as possible.

[DouglasCole]

Originally Posted by dgrm4

That can be extremely deadly in a modern gun fight. Even with Body Armor.

"Ambushes are murder, and murder is fun."

No such thing as a "fair fight," and all. If the PCs are tactically smart, they'll even stage L-shaped ambushes in which one of the elements fires lengthwise along the enemy line, and stray shots can hit those not directly aimed at.

A few rules, tho:

If you want badass Mercs, you give them (all) Combat Reflexes. Immune to surprise like that. Don't be surprised if you kill the PCs with dudes like this, though.

If you want REALLY badass Mercs, know IN ADVANCE what their tactical doctrine will be. Half drop and give suppression fire, the other half charge the ambush, whatever. But there are usually options that are more tactically sound than others.

Finally, if you want a lot of dead PCs, have the Mercs act like . . . PCs. Approaching a bar that people could clearly hide behind, have they recon by fire with either bullets (through the bar) or grenades. A Per-based Tactics roll would tell them to have behind-the-bar covered at all times, and having effectively taken a Wait maneuver as they advance, THEY get the first shot.

[Sunrunners_Fire]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

Finally, if you want a lot of dead PCs, have the Mercs act like . . . PCs. Approaching a bar that people could clearly hide behind, have they recon by fire with either bullets (through the bar) or grenades. A Per-based Tactics roll would tell them to have behind-the-bar covered at all times, and having effectively taken a Wait maneuver as they advance, THEY get the first shot.

If you find yourself in a fair fight, you didn't plan your mission properly.
- David Hackworth

If your attack is going too well, you have walked into an ambush.
- Infantry Journal

You, you, and you: Panic. The rest of you, come with me.
- US Marine Corp Gunnery Sgt

None of my players are silly enough to think I won't run (reasonably intelligent and trained) NPCs with as effective tactics as their stats indicate.

Shockingly, most of my players either avoid combat entirely or really try not to go into it without as many advantages as they can manage. I find this realistic and recommended behavior. :)