[UT] So, what is the maximum skill level for NAI, LAI, SAI?

[vicky_molokh]

Greetings, all!

I'm bringing this up in a separate thread, because the issue desrves being resolved once and for all. What is the maximum level that various *AIs can have? Having no limit results in skill-40 computer generals worth a mere $50k at TL9, so I guess there should be a limit. But what is it? Attribute+Complexity? Attribute+2 regardless of Complexity? Something else?

Finding an official answer would be nice, but speculations and logical arguments are welcome too.

Thanks in advance!

[Ulzgoroth]

Something else.

Some skills can be performed at high levels by something that couldn't justify a non-0 IQ score. Others likely can't, though I doubt it's possible to prove that.

However, I strongly recommend only using the pricing scheme from UT if you a) just don't care if it makes sense and b) won't allow players to game it in ways that conflict with the setting.

[Anthony]

The maximum skill level for a volitional AI should be the same as the maximum skill level for a human with the same IQ and advantages. In a realistic game, treat the human as having the same basic limits as a Complexity 8 volitional AI, and a reasonable mental skill limit is around Complexity*3; physical skill limit is heavily influenced by hardware capabilities and does not easily map to Complexity.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The maximum skill level for a volitional AI should be the same as the maximum skill level for a human with the same IQ and advantages. In a realistic game, treat the human as having the same basic limits as a Complexity 8 volitional AI, and a reasonable mental skill limit is around Complexity*3; physical skill limit is heavily influenced by hardware capabilities and does not easily map to Complexity.

Well, humans start having problem at level Attribute+10 (the daily skill maintenance roll), so the SAI limit seems to be pretty high.

[Icelander]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Well, humans start having problem at level Attribute+10 (the daily skill maintenance roll), so the SAI limit seems to be pretty high.

That rule is not necessarily aimed at realistic games.

The limit for skills in an utterly realistic setting might range from Attribute+6 to Attribute+10.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Icelander

That rule is not necessarily aimed at realistic games.

The limit for skills in an utterly realistic setting might range from Attribute+6 to Attribute+10.

Weird. The rule is classified as harshly realistic.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Anthony

The maximum skill level for a volitional AI should be the same as the maximum skill level for a human with the same IQ and advantages. In a realistic game, treat the human as having the same basic limits as a Complexity 8 volitional AI, and a reasonable mental skill limit is around Complexity*3; physical skill limit is heavily influenced by hardware capabilities and does not easily map to Complexity.

If you're treating AIs and humans the same, UT has rules for the amximum level of Skill you can just drop into a human's brain. See Chip Slots on p.216. This would represent the state of the art for programming real world skills at that TL.

Real world "Gunnery" computers at TL8 aren't a good example since they don't fire weapons the same way humans do. They're definitely using the Targeting with Active Sensors and I beleive they are also using the Observed Fire and Walking the Burst rules from 3e. The Phalanx computer is definitely watching the outgoing stream of rounds on its' radar and moving the stream until it intersects with the incoming radar blip.

[munin]

Originally Posted by Fred Brackin

... UT has rules for the amximum level of Skill you can just drop into a human's brain. See Chip Slots on p.216. This would represent the state of the art for programming real world skills at that TL...

This is the best answer so far.

Using the suggested maximum of (TL-7)×5, you get Attr+0 (VH) to Attr+3 (E) at TL9 (10 points), and Attr+4 (VH) to Attr+7 (E) at TL12 (25 points) for skills programmed into the AI.

However, the AI could still learn and improve its pre-programmed skill, up to the normal limits of a regular human mind. That's just part of being of sufficient complexity to run a mind.

[Langy]

Originally Posted by munin

This is the best answer so far.

Using the suggested maximum of (TL-7)×5, you get Attr+0 (VH) to Attr+3 (E) at TL9 (10 points), and Attr+4 (VH) to Attr+7 (E) at TL12 (25 points) for skills programmed into the AI.

However, the AI could still learn and improve its pre-programmed skill, up to the normal limits of a regular human mind. That's just part of being of sufficient complexity to run a mind.

I wish that had been (TL-7)x4 instead of x5. Would fit the skill-costs progression a lot better, and only be 1 skill level lower even at TL12.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by vicky_molokh

Greetings, all!

I'm bringing this up in a separate thread, because the issue desrves being resolved once and for all. What is the maximum level that various *AIs can have? Having no limit results in skill-40 computer generals worth a mere $50k at TL9, so I guess there should be a limit. But what is it? !

Well that IS the reason why I keep saying humans are obsolete. But really it's safe to assume that the AI's aren't going to be better than humans of comparable intelligence, however high said humans can get. So are you playing in a 100 point game or a 1000 point game?