Valadrim's Warhammer 40,000 conversion thread

[Valadrim]

First I must acknowledge a huge debt to Perfect Organism's work here http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=67296. Much of this is highly derivative.

Before I did anything else I wanted to figure out what the weapons and armour would look like. Like Perfect Organism, I started with Ultra-Tech to find comparisons, but I changed things around with reckless abandon to make things work.

Weapon		Damage		Acc	Range	 	Weight	RoF	Shots	ST	Bulk	Rcl
Lasgun		5d(2) burn	10	500/1,500	5.6/2C	10	70(3)	5t	-3	1
Laspistol	4d(2) burn	6	300/900		3.3/C	10	70(3)	6	-2	1
Longlas		8d(2) burn	12+2	1,300/3,900	19/2C	1	20(3)	10t	-5	1
Hellgun		6d(3) burn	10	2,000/6,000	8/Dp	10	200(5)	7t	-4	1
Lascannon	6dx10(5) burn	10	50k/150k	500/Fp	1	15(5)	27M	-10	1

Inferno Pistol	5dx2(30) bn cor	3	30/90		3.3/?	1	8(5)	6	-2	1
Meltagun	8dx2(30) bn cor	6	50/150		5.6/?	1	12(5)	5t	-3	1
Multimelta	6dx6(30) bn cor	8	150/450		70/?	1	33(5)	18M	-8	1

Plasmapistol	8dx2(10) bn ex	4	500/1,500	3.3/?	1	10(3)	9	-3	2
Plasmagun	6dx4(10) bn ex	8	750/2,250	20/?	1	20(5)	11t	-6	2

Autogun		6d pi		4	700/4,000	7/1.5	15	50+1(3)	9t	-4	2
Autopistol	3d pi +		2	180/2,000	3/1	10	30+1(3)	10	-2	3
Hand Cannon	4d+1 pi++	2	235/2,600	3/1	3	9+1(3)	11	-2	4
Shotgun		4d+4 pi++	3	100/500		6/.75	3	5+1(3)	10t	-5	4
Heavy Stubber	9d pi++		5	1,300/5,800	20/6	10	60(5)	11Bt	-6	3

Boltgun		8d(3) pi++	4	1,900		10/7.5	10	30(3)	10t	-4	2
+follow up	1d cr ex [1d]
Boltpistol	8d(3) pi++	2	1,900		3/2.5	3	10(3)	10	-3	3
+follow up	1d cr ex [1d]
Heavy Bolter	12d(3) pi++	3	3,900		80/15	10	60(5)	20M	-8	1
+follow up	1d+1 cr ex [1d+1]

Armour Type		DR		Weight
Guardsman Armour	20		13
Guardsman Helmet	20		4
Carapace Armour		50/30		30
Carapace Helmet		20/12		5
Power Armour		120/80 		500

[lexington]

Why did you give melta's an armor divisor of thirty? (I don't know much about 40K beyond the grimdark)

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by lexington

Why did you give melta's an armor divisor of thirty? (I don't know much about 40K beyond the grimdark)

Because Meltas burn though everything? Even Titan armor. Landraiders, with their AV 14 all around are still penetrated on a regular basis by Melta weapons.

[Valadrim]

Originally Posted by lexington

Why did you give melta's an armor divisor of thirty? (I don't know much about 40K beyond the grimdark)

They all normal armour in the wargame irrelevant. Only shields and supernatural protection have a chance at stopping them as a general rule. The Basic set seems to imply that armour divisors normally go from 10 to 100 (BS p 47), but 100 seemed to be a bit much for something technological.

[Dinadon]

Originally Posted by Valadrim

They all normal armour in the wargame irrelevant. Only shields and supernatural protection have a chance at stopping them as a general rule. The Basic set seems to imply that armour divisors normally go from 10 to 100 (BS p 47), but 100 seemed to be a bit much for something technological.

But plasma weaponry isn't really a superior penetration choice compared to lascannons. Surely just drop them to have an armor divisor of 5, let multi-meltas have 10 and leave 100 for Necron gauss weapons.

Also, why do the plasma weapons have the explosive modifier? It's only the cannon version that's suppose to fire explosive shots.

With meltas, why the major damage difference? The main distinguishing feature is suppose to be the range (by the way, I think you have a typo on the multi-melta's range). This seems particularly important with the Inferno pistol, as it's meant to be hard to remake.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by Dinadon

But plasma weaponry isn't really a superior penetration choice compared to lascannons. Surely just drop them to have an armor divisor of 5, let multi-meltas have 10 and leave 100 for Necron gauss weapons.

Since 3rd edition 40k, Lascannons and Plasma guns have the same AP value: 2, with Lascannons having a slight edge in Strength(9 vs 8), giving them slightly better penetration and wounding characteristics against massive targets(vehicles, Carnifexes, the AVATAR...), but the difference against troop models really doesn't matter. I think Valadrim isn't far off the mark in giving them their damage values: a las cannon does 210 damage, penetrating up to DR 1049, while a Plasma Gun goes 84 damage, and penetrates up to DR 839. On the face of it, it seems like the Plasma gun is more effective, but it lacks the raw brute force of the LasCannon.

also, I think an AD of (10) for meltas is a bit weak. Meltas are capable of slagging through any armor in the game: melta bombs can take out ANYTHING(Except...the AVATAR!) in one hit, especially at close ranges. A Melta should be able to go through a tank's armor at about the same capability as a las cannon, beyond it's 1/2d range. Within 1/2d range, a Melta should be able to completely burn pretty much anything short of an MBT to a crisp, and wil leven take out MBTs on a fairly regular basis.

Also, why do the plasma weapons have the explosive modifier? It's only the cannon version that's suppose to fire explosive shots.

Plasma guns have been described as having an explosive impact for at least 15 years in the background. However, keep in mind that a Plasma pistols effective blast is about 3yds in radius, against an unarmored man. Against a soldier in flak armor, even a a blast within 1yd isn't really very lethal, and unlikely to kill, or even wound. The vaunted Plasmagun's blast radius against unarmored troops would be something like 4yds, which is just too small to even *begin* to qualify for the blast template in 40k.

A different approach I thought about with Meltas was to make them effectively flamethrowers, but with an armor divisor and corrosion damage, allowing them to "melt" through armor with a good, close, sustained shot.

[Valadrim]

Originally Posted by Dinadon

With meltas, why the major damage difference? The main distinguishing feature is suppose to be the range (by the way, I think you have a typo on the multi-melta's range). This seems particularly important with the Inferno pistol, as it's meant to be hard to remake.

In the wargame they have similar stats, but Dark Heresy et all gives a power differential. However perhaps the difference I have given is too large.

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

Since 3rd edition 40k, Lascannons and Plasma guns have the same AP value: 2, with Lascannons having a slight edge in Strength(9 vs 8), giving them slightly better penetration and wounding characteristics against massive targets(vehicles, Carnifexes, the AVATAR...), but the difference against troop models really doesn't matter. I think Valadrim isn't far off the mark in giving them their damage values: a las cannon does 210 damage, penetrating up to DR 1049, while a Plasma Gun goes 84 damage, and penetrates up to DR 839. On the face of it, it seems like the Plasma gun is more effective, but it lacks the raw brute force of the LasCannon.

I have been playing with an armour divisor of (5) for plasma which will give a 44 penetrating damage against a light vehicle with DR of 200 or 60 damage to a space marine torso. These numbers feel like they might be sufficient, but I want to check all of my other numbers

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

also, I think an AD of (10) for meltas is a bit weak. Meltas are capable of slagging through any armor in the game: melta bombs can take out ANYTHING(Except...the AVATAR!) in one hit, especially at close ranges. A Melta should be able to go through a tank's armor at about the same capability as a las cannon, beyond it's 1/2d range. Within 1/2d range, a Melta should be able to completely burn pretty much anything short of an MBT to a crisp, and wil leven take out MBTs on a fairly regular basis.

Plasma guns have been described as having an explosive impact for at least 15 years in the background. However, keep in mind that a Plasma pistols effective blast is about 3yds in radius, against an unarmored man. Against a soldier in flak armor, even a a blast within 1yd isn't really very lethal, and unlikely to kill, or even wound. The vaunted Plasmagun's blast radius against unarmored troops would be something like 4yds, which is just too small to even *begin* to qualify for the blast template in 40k.

Agreed

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

A different approach I thought about with Meltas was to make them effectively flamethrowers, but with an armor divisor and corrosion damage, allowing them to "melt" through armor with a good, close, sustained shot.

Actually I based it off of plasma flamers, and corrosion is going into the stat-line, thank you...but perhaps I should up the damage and lower the pen to compensate...I'll keep it as is (with cor) and see what happens.

[lexington]

Originally Posted by Valadrim

They all normal armour in the wargame irrelevant. Only shields and supernatural protection have a chance at stopping them as a general rule. The Basic set seems to imply that armour divisors normally go from 10 to 100 (BS p 47), but 100 seemed to be a bit much for something technological.

From that description would probably give them (100) and have the types of armor they can't penetrate have two levels of Hardened.

[Verjigorm]

Originally Posted by lexington

From that description would probably give them (100) and have the types of armor they can't penetrate have two levels of Hardened.

The only armors they dont penetrate are force fields. Well, i mean, they can glance or ding off things sometimes. But rarely, as the minimum armor value for a 40k vehicle is 10(think...unarmored car), the minimum result a melta gun can do to an AV 10 vehicle is capable of destroying it. Melta guns are basically an unstoppable force: they carve through everthing.

But there are supernatural forcefields/reality warping things that can protect against meltas. But even then, it's not very likely.

[Opellulo]

Originally Posted by Verjigorm

The only armors they dont penetrate are force fields. Well, i mean, they can glance or ding off things sometimes. But rarely, as the minimum armor value for a 40k vehicle is 10(think...unarmored car), the minimum result a melta gun can do to an AV 10 vehicle is capable of destroying it. Melta guns are basically an unstoppable force: they carve through everthing.

But there are supernatural forcefields/reality warping things that can protect against meltas. But even then, it's not very likely.

The melta guns were always designed to be the WH40K "Fantasy Shotgun": if you manage to get in range you can blow up anything... But according to description they are "simply" plasma weapons (IIRC there's also a tank's heat protection option against meltas). The problem in the setting is that you got really a lot of different weapons with different propulsions mechanics that get the more or less same results. To me is better to stat even the xeno weapons before moving on: Shuriken Eldar weapons were always a pain to stat (automatic-fire ultra-penetrating big-bullet weapons) and we're not even entered in the more "exotic weaponry" field: Gauss Rifles, Exitus, and so on. Only then, based on "what can penetrate what" you can start statting armors and the rest.

I'd love to see one day a WH20K full conversion for GURPS but unless some smart solution it's a "much dices, much modifier, much math, much rithm-breaking" field.