[Martial Arts] Contest of Wills

[LordOfDorkness]

A friend of mine (Mailanka) is putting together this chanbara-based samurai game. He is including the whole shezam of fancy sword fighting rules.

One of them is the Contest of Wills (p. 130 of MA). There is one thing that is confusing us:
"If this drives the loser to attack, he has the winner’s margin of victory as a penalty to his attack rolls!"

Note the plural, does this penalty apply to all if the loser's attack rolls until the end of the combat? Or just the attack rolls until the end of his next turn?

[Stone Dog]

Maybe the loser gets another will roll if he takes the advantage during a round?

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by LordOfDorkness

(. . .) Note the plural, does this penalty apply to all if the loser's attack rolls until the end of the combat? Or just the attack rolls until the end of his next turn?

Interesting question. I'm tilted to think that the effect lasts for a second (in line with, for instance, Shock Penalties). It says "attacks", yes, but it's very possible that it's worded in that way for covering the possibility of the loser attacking with Rapid Strike", or having Extra Attack, etc . . .

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by demonsbane

Interesting question. I'm tilted to think that the effect lasts for a second (in line with, for instance, Shock Penalties). It says "attacks", yes, but it's very possible that it's worded in that way for covering the possibility of the loser attacking with Rapid Strike", or having Extra Attack, etc . . .

Yeah, that's what I'm trying to figure out. On the one hand, "common sense" says that it would be the next attack (or all the attacks he makes on the next turn, in case there are more of them), but it's also kinda lame if you go through this long Regular Contest of Wills to gain the effect of a minor feint. Moreover, it looks like the results on the reaction table could end the fight right there, so perhaps it is the intention of the Contest of Wills that, should you lose it, the fight is essentially over for you. I mean, normally, if it's the next turn, this tends to be stated very clearly. Likewise, if something lasts for the duration of the combat, this tends to be stated clearly too (for example, if you fail to engage someone in a contest of wills, it explicitly states that you cannot try again for the remainder of the combat). For the penalty, it simply doesn't clarify one way or the other.

I think I'm leaning towards the latter for my game (for thematic purposes), though I'm hoping the hive mind has some additional insights that I might not have considered, or perhaps the author has just been dying to tell us about this (or it was resolved YEARS ago, and I just haven't been paying attention or what have you).

[DouglasCole]

Obviously this isn't any sort of official whosiwhatisis, but...

If you lose the contest of wills, the "genre" more or less says that that fight is a foregone conclusion...and you're not going to end up happy. You will likely end up spread out in pieces on the ground, and given samurai anime and movies, possibly in (several) trees.

I'd have the penalties from the Contest of Wills last up to something happens to change the loser's morale state. Maybe he rolls a critical on attack or defense, or maybe his opponent rolls a critical MISS. All of a sudden he thinks his destiny isn't quite written yet, and either the penalties just go away, or another Contest of Wills ensues, as they size each other up again.

So basically the penalties to skill and other actions are because in your mind, you've already lost. This is self-fulfilling...so I'd make the penalties stick.

[Dorin Thorha]

I really like the idea of a battle with alternating advantages, depending on who won the last contest. It provides a way of simulating the way movie battles often go, with first one and then another person pushing forward, while the other takes all-out defenses and retreats.

[Mailanka]

Originally Posted by DouglasCole

I'd have the penalties from the Contest of Wills last up to something happens to change the loser's morale state.

You know, that's a really cool take. That means your team mascot or cool mentor can make, say, a leadership or public speaking check to talk you out of your demoralized state, and that's very genre appropriate.

[demonsbane]

Originally Posted by Mailanka

(. . .) I think I'm leaning towards the latter for my game (for thematic purposes)

Yes, thinking about it again, extending the duration of the loser's penalty for more than a single round makes much more sense to me.

[Lupo]

Originally Posted by LordOfDorkness

Note the plural, does this penalty apply to all if the loser's attack rolls until the end of the combat?

I think so. It would be quite useless if it worked for only a single turn.
Moreover, thematically it seems more appropriate that a demotivated/frightened fighter would stay demotivated for the whole fight.

Perhaps you could allow a "recovery roll" on Will after a few turns, though.