Mob attacks

Sir Tifyable · 10-29-2010, 06:35 AM

Probably the most terrifying situation (excluding your personal phobias) to find yourself in would be facing a mob attack. No matter how skilled you are, you're likely to be overwhelmed by a mass of less-skilled people just basically swamping your defences. Classic cases are a swarm of zombies breaking into where you are, terrified refugees trying to get onto your helicopter when the gunfire starts at the back of the crowd, or a crowd of prisoners trying a mass breakout against a smaller number of guards.

But the GURPS rules for swarm attacks are just for small threats (rats etc.), and the rules about how many attackers can grapple one person at a time don't cover that situation.

How do you handle it?

Ulzgoroth · 10-29-2010, 07:22 AM

Well, there seem to be two cases here.

One is really easy, if you don't mind rolling for lots of combattants. If a mob swarms around you/up to your line and attacks, you can handle it by the standard rules. Mob attackers are most likely going to be using All Out Telegraphic attacks, which means they'll hit reliably. And there are a lot of them within reach. Parries and blocks, if not already inhibited by being crowded into close combat, will simply be overwhelmed by that many attackers. A ridiculous dodge-monkey might remain free for a while, if they can't be outflanked, but criticals will catch up with them. Meanwhile, you can't make them stop attacking because anyone you incapacitate has a replacement right behind. And if they're grappling you, pretty soon you can't break free either because there are too many grapplers for you to shake them off as fast as they join in. There's no limit on how many people can grapple you at once.

Then they can keep making takedown attempts by pairs, punching you in the face, strangling you, or whatever else they feel like doing. These may not be rapidly effective if you're tough enough, but you can't make it stop.

The mob slam may be more problematic. A charging mob can simply run you over, but the slam rules are for individuals. One possibility would be to add 1/5 the HP of each person in direct line behind the one running into you to the HP of the actual slammer for slam damage purposes. The cube root of the sum of the cubes of the column members' HP would probably be better.

vierasmarius · 10-29-2010, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

The mob slam may be more problematic. A charging mob can simply run you over, but the slam rules are for individuals. One possibility would be to add 1/5 the HP of each person in direct line behind the one running into you to the HP of the actual slammer for slam damage purposes. The cube root of the sum of the cubes of the column members' HP would probably be better.

Hmm, I like that. It could also be used for shield walls that are slamming or resisting a slam. I'm not sure how historically accurate it is, but I've seen reenactors fight in shield walls by having the entire formation slam into the enemy, the front troops braced by those behind.

Sam Baughn · 10-29-2010, 07:37 AM

I tried writing up some mob rules once, although they lack any options for grappling, slamming and trampling and I never actually got round to playtesting them.

http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=54910

Ulzgoroth · 10-29-2010, 07:51 AM

Actually, I think what may be missing for proper mobbing is rules to restrict the mob's concentration. If I'm reading right, there's nothing precluding the entire mob, no matter how large, packing down into reach of their victims. Realistically, that's often physically impossible.

Bruno · 10-29-2010, 08:51 AM

Once you're surrounded, you'll be attacked from behind and get no active defenses. Dodge Monkey had better have a better Move and/or a defensible position. Mobbing someone generally means you quickly get flanking benefits, and shortly thereafter you get attacks from behind, someone takes you down, and then its Game Over Man, Game Over pretty rapidly.

Taking it from another POV, even a non-hostile crowd can be deadly. The football crushes in europe in the 60s, 70s, and 80s were horrifying. Basically ending up with the combined ST of about 50 people applying a bear hug on you by smashing you into a wall or fence and pressing against you, suffocating you and breaking your ribs.

aesir23 · 10-29-2010, 09:27 AM

IIRC, we discussed some nice rules for swarms of SM 0+ creatures in the Horror playtest. I don't know if they'll make it into the final version, though.

Kissamies · 10-29-2010, 11:13 AM

Though not exactly what you are after, the One-Man Armies rule of GURPS Supers might be useful for this. It treats the mob's attacks as rapid fire.

whswhs · 10-29-2010, 11:14 AM

GURPS Supers has rules for one man against many on pp. 118-119; they're aimed at supers, but the rules for handling the crowd of nonsuper foes could be transferred.

The macroswarm rules on p. 21 of GURPS Thaumatology: Urban Magics could also be applied to a mob.

Bill Stoddard

starslayer · 10-29-2010, 06:06 PM

Are special rules even needed?

Between all out, telegraphed dual attacks (both grapple attempts) from the three guys in front of you, and all out (dedicated) deceptive attacks (grapples) from the three guys behind you, followed by all out attack, dual attack telegraphed attacks from whoever failed to grapple the target that turn all but the strongest, fatest, toughest beings should be killed in three rounds max. If they are wearing armour then it's just an extra few rounds to have your 6 grappling mob tear it off before the regular attacks begin.

Some rules for how the mob moves, and intimidation checks by the target to prevent being surrounded by 6 mob members willing to attack simultaneously might be required, but those actually take away from the terror of the mob rather then add to it.

10-29-2010, 06:35 AM	#1
Sir Tifyable Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Sheffield, England	Mob attacks Probably the most terrifying situation (excluding your personal phobias) to find yourself in would be facing a mob attack. No matter how skilled you are, you're likely to be overwhelmed by a mass of less-skilled people just basically swamping your defences. Classic cases are a swarm of zombies breaking into where you are, terrified refugees trying to get onto your helicopter when the gunfire starts at the back of the crowd, or a crowd of prisoners trying a mass breakout against a smaller number of guards. But the GURPS rules for swarm attacks are just for small threats (rats etc.), and the rules about how many attackers can grapple one person at a time don't cover that situation. How do you handle it?

10-29-2010, 07:22 AM	#2
Ulzgoroth Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: Mob attacks Well, there seem to be two cases here. One is really easy, if you don't mind rolling for lots of combattants. If a mob swarms around you/up to your line and attacks, you can handle it by the standard rules. Mob attackers are most likely going to be using All Out Telegraphic attacks, which means they'll hit reliably. And there are a lot of them within reach. Parries and blocks, if not already inhibited by being crowded into close combat, will simply be overwhelmed by that many attackers. A ridiculous dodge-monkey might remain free for a while, if they can't be outflanked, but criticals will catch up with them. Meanwhile, you can't make them stop attacking because anyone you incapacitate has a replacement right behind. And if they're grappling you, pretty soon you can't break free either because there are too many grapplers for you to shake them off as fast as they join in. There's no limit on how many people can grapple you at once. Then they can keep making takedown attempts by pairs, punching you in the face, strangling you, or whatever else they feel like doing. These may not be rapidly effective if you're tough enough, but you can't make it stop. The mob slam may be more problematic. A charging mob can simply run you over, but the slam rules are for individuals. One possibility would be to add 1/5 the HP of each person in direct line behind the one running into you to the HP of the actual slammer for slam damage purposes. The cube root of the sum of the cubes of the column members' HP would probably be better. __________________ I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

10-29-2010, 07:37 AM	#4
Sam Baughn Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: United Kingdom of Great Britain and some other bits.	Re: Mob attacks I tried writing up some mob rules once, although they lack any options for grappling, slamming and trampling and I never actually got round to playtesting them. http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=54910

10-29-2010, 07:51 AM	#5
Ulzgoroth Join Date: Jul 2008	Re: Mob attacks Actually, I think what may be missing for proper mobbing is rules to restrict the mob's concentration. If I'm reading right, there's nothing precluding the entire mob, no matter how large, packing down into reach of their victims. Realistically, that's often physically impossible. __________________ I don't know any 3e, so there is no chance that I am talking about 3e rules by accident.

10-29-2010, 08:51 AM	#6
Bruno Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada	Re: Mob attacks Once you're surrounded, you'll be attacked from behind and get no active defenses. Dodge Monkey had better have a better Move and/or a defensible position. Mobbing someone generally means you quickly get flanking benefits, and shortly thereafter you get attacks from behind, someone takes you down, and then its Game Over Man, Game Over pretty rapidly. Taking it from another POV, even a non-hostile crowd can be deadly. The football crushes in europe in the 60s, 70s, and 80s were horrifying. Basically ending up with the combined ST of about 50 people applying a bear hug on you by smashing you into a wall or fence and pressing against you, suffocating you and breaking your ribs. __________________ All about Size Modifier; Unified Hit Location Table A Wiki for my F2F Group A neglected GURPS blog

10-29-2010, 09:27 AM	#7
aesir23 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Vermont	Re: Mob attacks IIRC, we discussed some nice rules for swarms of SM 0+ creatures in the Horror playtest. I don't know if they'll make it into the final version, though. __________________ My ongoing thread of GURPS versions of DC Comics characters.

10-29-2010, 11:13 AM	#8
Kissamies Join Date: Feb 2010	Re: Mob attacks Though not exactly what you are after, the One-Man Armies rule of GURPS Supers might be useful for this. It treats the mob's attacks as rapid fire.

10-29-2010, 11:14 AM	#9
whswhs Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Lawrence, KS	Re: Mob attacks GURPS Supers has rules for one man against many on pp. 118-119; they're aimed at supers, but the rules for handling the crowd of nonsuper foes could be transferred. The macroswarm rules on p. 21 of GURPS Thaumatology: Urban Magics could also be applied to a mob. Bill Stoddard

10-29-2010, 06:06 PM	#10
starslayer Join Date: Dec 2006	Re: Mob attacks Are special rules even needed? Between all out, telegraphed dual attacks (both grapple attempts) from the three guys in front of you, and all out (dedicated) deceptive attacks (grapples) from the three guys behind you, followed by all out attack, dual attack telegraphed attacks from whoever failed to grapple the target that turn all but the strongest, fatest, toughest beings should be killed in three rounds max. If they are wearing armour then it's just an extra few rounds to have your 6 grappling mob tear it off before the regular attacks begin. Some rules for how the mob moves, and intimidation checks by the target to prevent being surrounded by 6 mob members willing to attack simultaneously might be required, but those actually take away from the terror of the mob rather then add to it.