Astropus template in Biotech pg 91

[lachimba]

Astropus template in Biotech pg 91:
The template has Air Move -10 (Air speed 2) [-20] and Flight (costs Fatigue 1FP, -5%; Requires 0G, -50%) [18]

It seems wrong to me to have a reduced Air Move that is worth more points than the Flight costs.

Shouldn't the Air Move be treated as a limitation on Flight? or have the negative point cost capped at x% of the final cost for Flight?

Otherwise you can get as in this case a player getting flight, albeit with limitations, for free

[nerdvana]

Originally Posted by lachimba

Astropus template in Biotech pg 91:
The template has Air Move -10 (Air speed 2) [-20] and Flight (costs Fatigue 1FP, -5%; Requires 0G, -50%) [18]

It seems wrong to me to have a reduced Air Move that is worth more points than the Flight costs.

Shouldn't the Air Move be treated as a limitation on Flight? or have the negative point cost capped at x% of the final cost for Flight?

Otherwise you can get as in this case a player getting flight, albeit with limitations, for free

The answer to both of your questions is "no". Firstly, because the writeup in GURPS Biotech is correct by definition as it is RAW (not that this would prevent you from house-ruling it). However, Enhanced/Reduced Move is applied to the character's movement rate no matter how the character gained the movement rate. Flight is the source of the Air Movement, Reduced Air Move is then applied to the movement rate... they are independent traits.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by nerdvana

The answer to both of your questions is "no". Firstly, because the writeup in GURPS Biotech is correct by definition as it is RAW (not that this would prevent you from house-ruling it). However, Enhanced/Reduced Move is applied to the character's movement rate no matter how the character gained the movement rate. Flight is the source of the Air Movement, Reduced Air Move is then applied to the movement rate... they are independent traits.

Flight (Winged) [15] and Reduced Air Move 8 [-16] means that, when you compare two characters with Basic Speed 5, the one that can hover and fly at up to 2 yards per second costs 1 point less than the one who cannot. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with this picture?

Reduced Air Move would be worth -10%/level when applied to Flight. You end up with the same cost per reduction (unless using multiplicative modifiers), but you don't end up with a situation where, with all else being equal, a flying character costs less than an earthbound one.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

Flight (Winged) [15] and Reduced Air Move 8 [-16] means that, when you compare two characters with Basic Speed 5, the one that can hover and fly at up to 2 yards per second costs 1 point less than the one who cannot. Are you saying there is nothing wrong with this picture?

There is something wrong with this picture. You neglected the Zero G limitation.

[SuedodeuS]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

There is something wrong with this picture. You neglected the Zero G limitation.

I wasn't talking about the octopus. I was talking about the concept of Air Move vs Flight in general.

Of course, looking at my example now, I do see a problem with it. I calculated it as though Flight were worth 20 points, rather than 40 points. Putting in zero-G (maybe this is what you meant?), we end up with Flight (Winged, 0G only) [10] and Reduced Air Move -6 [-12]. This means a character that can fly at 4 yards/second in 0G is worth 2 points less than one who cannot. Getting points back for gaining utility, regardless of how limited it may be, doesn't sit well with me.

[cccwebs]

Originally Posted by SuedodeuS

I wasn't talking about the octopus. I was talking about the concept of Air Move vs Flight in general.

Of course, looking at my example now, I do see a problem with it. I calculated it as though Flight were worth 20 points, rather than 40 points. Putting in zero-G (maybe this is what you meant?), we end up with Flight (Winged, 0G only) [10] and Reduced Air Move -6 [-12]. This means a character that can fly at 4 yards/second in 0G is worth 2 points less than one who cannot. Getting points back for gaining utility, regardless of how limited it may be, doesn't sit well with me.

Or, you could look at it as gaining an extra hit location (at only a -2) for those 2 points you get back.

[cccwebs]

Originally Posted by lachimba

Astropus template in Biotech pg 91:
The template has Air Move -10 (Air speed 2) [-20] and Flight (costs Fatigue 1FP, -5%; Requires 0G, -50%) [18]

It seems wrong to me to have a reduced Air Move that is worth more points than the Flight costs.

Shouldn't the Air Move be treated as a limitation on Flight? or have the negative point cost capped at x% of the final cost for Flight?

Otherwise you can get as in this case a player getting flight, albeit with limitations, for free

In this case, you have a character that allows flight in a 0G environment, at a move of 2, costing 1 FP per minute. This is less than Basic Move (until Basic Move is greater than 10). Also, it appears that the template is missing the No Legs(Aerial) [0] trait, as this is a "space" octopus.

[lachimba]

Originally Posted by cccwebs

In this case, you have a character that allows flight in a 0G environment, at a move of 2, costing 1 FP per minute. This is less than Basic Move (until Basic Move is greater than 10). Also, it appears that the template is missing the No Legs(Aerial) [0] trait, as this is a "space" octopus.

The Astropus has legs. It can walk as well as fly.

[Threlgar]

Originally Posted by lachimba

The Astropus has legs. It can walk as well as fly.

I think what he meant is it should not have legs. They don´t fit the concept and their absence would solve the problem, since when not flying it could only drag itself along at very low speeds with it´s tentacles. Could probably even be a disadvantage worth more than 2 points...

[cccwebs]

Originally Posted by Threlgar

I think what he meant is it should not have legs. They don´t fit the concept and their absence would solve the problem, since when not flying it could only drag itself along at very low speeds with it´s tentacles. Could probably even be a disadvantage worth more than 2 points...

Exactly. A space octupus should have 8 appendages. As written, the Astropus would have 10 appendages, 8 "arms" and 2 legs. It would seem, at least IMO, that the No Legs(Aerial) trait was left out. (Which isn't hard to understand, there are many templates throughout the books that have already had some errata posted.)