Knockback against opponents with Flight, Clinging, Catfall

[nerfninja]

Hello, I'm starting a campaign shortly and one of my character's primary attacks is a massive knockback attack. Specifically, it does 2d x 10 (No Wounding, No Blunt Trauma, Double Knockback). If I did my math right, I can potentially send an elephant flying 5 yards or a standard goon around 28 yards.

I was planning to do some playtesting to get a feel for knockback and collision rules, and some interesting questions came up.

If I understand correctly, if the attack is not successfully defended, then my knockback damage applies and there is no resistance roll whatsoever (Go Flying Goon!). Opponents suffering knockback test to see if they fall down at a penalty for each yard of knockback beyond the first. If they collide with anything in the way, they will suffer collision damage.

If the knockback does not bring them into contact with any terrain, do they suffer collision damage with the ground? Any suggestions for my GM on how to calculate that if so?

What if the opponent has an advantage like Flight, Clinging, or Catfall. Can these powers be used to mitigate collision damage or reduce knockback distance? Our campaign involves enough fantasy martial arts and Powers type abilities for me to expect to encounter a situation like this.

[Captain-Captain]

Originally Posted by nerfninja

Hello, I'm starting a campaign shortly and one of my character's primary attacks is a massive knockback attack. Specifically, it does 2d x 10 (No Wounding, No Blunt Trauma, Double Knockback). If I did my math right, I can potentially send an elephant flying 5 yards or a standard goon around 28 yards.

I was planning to do some playtesting to get a feel for knockback and collision rules, and some interesting questions came up.

If I understand correctly, if the attack is not successfully defended, then my knockback damage applies and there is no resistance roll whatsoever (Go Flying Goon!). Opponents suffering knockback test to see if they fall down at a penalty for each yard of knockback beyond the first. If they collide with anything in the way, they will suffer collision damage.

If the knockback does not bring them into contact with any terrain, do they suffer collision damage with the ground? Any suggestions for my GM on how to calculate that if so?

What if the opponent has an advantage like Flight, Clinging, or Catfall. Can these powers be used to mitigate collision damage or reduce knockback distance? Our campaign involves enough fantasy martial arts and Powers type abilities for me to expect to encounter a situation like this.

Flight would definitely trump knockback if it could adjust the course in time.

Clinging would come into play under unusual circumstances. Catfal might well apply.

The damage comes from sudden impact, if you went the indicated distance of the Knockback, it's safe to assume you got rid of the acquired kinetic energy safely and hit the ground slowly enough.

OTOH a 5 yard 45 degree downward KB result where the ground is only 2 yards away will hurt.

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

The damage comes from sudden impact, if you went the indicated distance of the Knockback, it's safe to assume you got rid of the acquired kinetic energy safely and hit the ground slowly enough.

I don't think this is the case. I mean, it's roughly similar to someone falling off a motorcycle, you're gonna lose a lot of skin and maybe break some bones. The only thing ablating KE is drag forces, otherwise it's just a factor of how large your initial impulse momentum was and how far you get before gravity manages to pull you into contact with the pavement.

[nerfninja]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

Flight would definitely trump knockback if it could adjust the course in time.

How do you account for "adjusting the course in time?" Would they be knocked back up to their top flying speed for second and then regain control in mid air on their own turn? As I understand it the knockback distance is also the velocity in yards/sec (as its used to calculate collision damage).

This is assuming our flier is not restricted by Newtonian or winged flight or no hovering.

Would you reduce the knockback distance, by some factor? Perhaps Basic Move would act as DR against Knockback for a flying unit, since that's how much inertial control they have?

[the_matrix_walker]

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

Flight would definitely trump knockback if it could adjust the course in time.

"in time" for knockback purposes is instant. You can't counter knockback any time your ground move is higher than the knockback, I don't see why air move would be any different.

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

Clinging would come into play under unusual circumstances. Catfal might well apply.

Basic catfall might be helpful on a collision, I never thought about it, but It certainly wouldn't reduce the amount of knockback. Clinging is problematic... it transfers the energy that should be expressed as flying off into wherever INTO your body. I'd think that would convert the knockback into some function of direct physical damage as you get "stretched"

Originally Posted by Captain-Captain

The damage comes from sudden impact, if you went the indicated distance of the Knockback, it's safe to assume you got rid of the acquired kinetic energy safely and hit the ground slowly enough.

If you are knocked back the full distance, and then fall, there is no collision, if you hit anything in the span knockback moves you, you are moving at 'full amount of calculated knockback per second' and take ollision damage accordingly

[Crakkerjakk]

If someone had flight I'd allow an aerobatics roll to halve damage, with a crit success giving no damage.

[nerfninja]

Originally Posted by Crakkerjakk

If someone had flight I'd allow an aerobatics roll to halve damage, with a crit success giving no damage.

Halve Damage from collision or halve damage from knockback?

[Crakkerjakk]

Originally Posted by nerfninja

Halve Damage from collision or halve damage from knockback?

Collision. Knockback is an instantaneous impulse. Collision (with ground) is you tumbling across the ground, which can be reduced by reducing your speed in mid-air via flight. I'd let any applicable talent help with the aerobatics roll, and allow the same thing even if they were headed for a tree or wall, but with some eyeballed penalties to the roll for having less time to react.

[Handsome Paul]

Originally Posted by the_matrix_walker

"in time" for knockback purposes is instant. You can't counter knockback any time your ground move is higher than the knockback, I don't see why air move would be any different.

This is true, but if I read the OP correctly, the knockback in question is 28 yards for an average goon. That's considerably more than one move. I certainly think that if a character with flight had an action while still flying through the air, they could simply right themselves.

EDIT: And while I'm at it...

I think this would probably apply to catfall and clinging too. If you're knocked back less than your move, you have no time to act. If you're knocked back more than your move, you have an action before you hit the ground and can say something like "I'd like to make an acrobatics roll and use catfall to land softly" or "I'm looking for a tree/wall/buddy to cling to mid flight".

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by Handsome Paul

This is true, but if I read the OP correctly, the knockback in question is 28 yards for an average goon. That's considerably more than one move. I certainly think that if a character with flight had an action while still flying through the air, they could simply right themselves.

The goons ground Move has nothing to do with the speed he's flying through the air - that's why he takes collision damage based on 28 yards of move, not based on his ground move. He flies through the air, travelling 28 yards in a second.

There's no time for a character with a movement power to check this movement.