[Psionic Powers] Quick Question: Increased Range (LOS) and "range"

[Gurps Fan]

Increased Range (Line of Sight) enhancement (Psionic Powers, p. 20) allows an ability to target anything the user can see and costs +40% if the underlying advantage has a 100-yard range and +70% if 10-yard. Then, how much does Increased Range (LOS) cost in the following cases?

1. The case that the underlying advantage has a "range" of 1/2D 10 and Max 100 (like IA, Affliction, touch-only advantage with Ranged, etc.).
   
   
2. The case that the underlying advantage has no "range" per se, but suffers penalty according to the range between the user and the target (like Malediction).

[vicky_molokh]

Long-Ranged plus Sight-Based.

[Harald387]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Increased Range (Line of Sight) enhancement (Psionic Powers, p. 20) allows an ability to target anything the user can see and costs +40% if the underlying advantage has a 100-yard range and +70% if 10-yard. Then, how much does Increased Range (LOS) cost in the following cases?

1. The case that the underlying advantage has a "range" of 1/2D 10 and Max 100 (like IA, Affliction, touch-only advantage with Ranged, etc.).
   
   
2. The case that the underlying advantage has no "range" per se, but suffers penalty according to the range between the user and the target (like Malediction).

1. The range is 100, so Line of Sight is a +40% enhancement.

2. Maledictions don't have range limits; they just take the appropriate penalties according to the level of Malediction and the distance from user to target. Use Sight-Based if your Malediction must affect people who can see you.

[PK]

Originally Posted by Harald387

1. The range is 100, so Line of Sight is a +40% enhancement.

2. Maledictions don't have range limits; they just take the appropriate penalties according to the level of Malediction and the distance from user to target. Use Sight-Based if your Malediction must affect people who can see you.

This.

Though I'll add for case 2 that you can reduce or remove your penalties by adding Long-Range. The Increased Range enhancement is explicitly for abilities with a defined range, so no version of it (including the new IR(LOS)) would be appropriate.

[munin]

In another post, I had noticed that +40% on 100 yards and +70% on 10 yards looked like taking both out to 2,000 yards with a regular Increased Range and had theorized that RPK had determined that that distance was where the benefits of LOS balance the drawbacks. But this thread has made me notice that LOS doesn't affect 1/2D, so I was wrong.

"+40% for an ability that normally has a 100-yard range, or +70% for one with a 10-yard range." (emphasis mine). I guess "normally" means that you can't simply add "Increased Max, 10x, +15%; Increased Range, LOS, +40%" (whether or not the ability has a 1/2D distance) instead of +70%, right?

[PK]

Originally Posted by munin

In another post, I had noticed that +40% on 100 yards and +70% on 10 yards looked like taking both out to 2,000 yards with a regular Increased Range and had theorized that RPK had determined that that distance was where the benefits of LOS balance the drawbacks.

If you went by straight distance, it'd actually be 10,000 yards, not 2,000. The simplest "ground up build" of Increased Range (LOS) would be Increased Range (10,000 yards), +60% or +90%; Vision-Based, Reversed, -20%.

It's not quite as simple as that combination, however. It's very much intended to be its own unique level of Increased Range.

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

If you went by straight distance, it'd actually be 10,000 yards, not 2,000. The simplest "ground up build" of Increased Range (LOS) would be Increased Range (10,000 yards), +60% or +90%; Vision-Based, Reversed, -20%.

It's not quite as simple as that combination, however. It's very much intended to be its own unique level of Increased Range.

Does a LoS-ranged ability stop working past 10k yards if you can still see the target?

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by Rev. Pee Kitty

This.

Though I'll add for case 2 that you can reduce or remove your penalties by adding Long-Range. The Increased Range enhancement is explicitly for abilities with a defined range, so no version of it (including the new IR(LOS)) would be appropriate.

Thank you for the reply. What I wanted was the "the caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all" effect.

Burning Attack 2d (Increased Range, LOS, +40%) [14]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees the subject. The caster makes attack roll on Innate Attack (Gaze) skill and the subject can make active defense normally. DR works as usual.

Burning Attack 2d (Malediction 3, +200%; Long-Range 1, +50%; Vision-Based, -20%) [33]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees the subject. The caster makes activation roll on Will, resisted by the subject's Will. DR doesn't work.

Burning Attack 2d (Increased Range, LOS, +40%; Cosmic, Irresistible attack, +300%) [44]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees the subject. The caster makes attack roll on Innate Attack (Gaze) skill and the subject can make active defense normally. DR doesn't work.

These all make sense.

[transmetahuman]

Originally Posted by Gurps Fan

Thank you for the reply. What I wanted was the "the caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all" effect.

Burning Attack 2d (Increased Range, LOS, +40%) [14]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees the subject. The caster makes attack roll on Innate Attack (Gaze) skill and the subject can make active defense normally. DR works as usual.

Burning Attack 2d (Malediction 3, +200%; Long-Range 1, +50%; Vision-Based, -20%) [33]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees the subject. The caster makes activation roll on Will, resisted by the subject's Will. DR doesn't work.

Burning Attack 2d (Increased Range, LOS, +40%; Cosmic, Irresistible attack, +300%) [44]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees the subject. The caster makes attack roll on Innate Attack (Gaze) skill and the subject can make active defense normally. DR doesn't work.

These all make sense.

Wee nit pick: With Reversed Vision-Based (therefore also with Increased Range (LOS)), if you're touching the target but can't see him (you're in an utterly dark room, he's invisible, you're blindfolded, or whatever), you can't affect him.

[Gurps Fan]

Originally Posted by transmetahuman

Wee nit pick: With Reversed Vision-Based (therefore also with Increased Range (LOS)), if you're touching the target but can't see him (you're in an utterly dark room, he's invisible, you're blindfolded, or whatever), you can't affect him.

You're quite right. Revised versions follow:

Burning Attack 2d (Malediction 3, +200%; Long-Range 1, +50%; Vision- or Touch-Based, Reversed, -15%) [34]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees or touches the subject. The caster makes activation roll on Will, resisted by the subject's Will. DR doesn't work.

Burning Attack 2d (Increased Range, LOS, +40%; Works Also as Touch-Based, +???%; Cosmic, Irresistible attack, +300%) [???]:
The caster must see or touch the subject, but he takes no range penalty at all as long as he sees or touches the subject. The caster makes attack roll on Innate Attack (Gaze) skill and the subject can make active defense normally. DR doesn't work.

I'm unclear about how much should Touch-Based cost in conjunction with Increased Range (LOS).