eGURPS (GURPS 5e)

[DeDiceManCometh]

This is the next big thing: You guys at SJG need to start thinking outside of the box. Some of the paradigm shifts exemplified by Web 2.0 are totally relevant to RPG design.

First off, think of GURPS as primarily content. Beyond a few core mechanics (rolling die vs. a target number), the vast majority of the system is comprised of databases. SKILLS are a big database, CREATURES are, TEMPLATES are. You get the idea.

At this point GURPS is so robust, you're not doing anybody any favors by "revising" it without (or with limited) backward compatibility,...unless you think WotC's D&D product line strategy is good for GURPS (ha!).

What you CAN offer in the next gen is the ability to MANAGE all the content -- on the web via a CMS. Want to play GURPS Fantasy? Wouldn't it be nice to be able to click a button and have all the databases FILTERED for only fantasy entries?

And if only the GURPS interface could be SKINNED so that the necessary evil of "generic" typefaces and artwork could be done away with?

Even rules documentation could be FILTERED, even by tags BASIC, OPTIONAL, ADVANCED...or say, CINEMATIC.

"Official" campaign settings could be assembled/editted by MIBs from user (or in-house) submissions by employing a Wiki or Wiki-like technology. Settings would grow exponentially.

Just sayin' -- morebetter rules ain't the answer, it's the tools to manage all that we already have.

[Cybren]

Yeah, sure. But what rules are relevant to one GM's fantasy campaign aren't to another's. If an RPG ever had a software version of its rule system the only functionality i'd want is that it be searchable and hypertextual

[Metallic Vortex]

Maybe you should look at this old idea: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/cdrom/

[DeDiceManCometh]

Originally Posted by Metallic Vortex

Maybe you should look at this old idea: http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/cdrom/

Maybe I shouldn't. That is NOT Web 2.0 thinking; that is pre-year-2000 thinking. CDROMs are dead, man. Wake up and smell the rotting aluminum oxide.

[robkelk]

Originally Posted by DeDiceManCometh

Maybe I shouldn't. That is NOT Web 2.0 thinking; that is pre-year-2000 thinking. CDROMs are dead, man. Wake up and smell the rotting aluminum oxide.

Actually, everything you've described is pre-year-2000 thinking - you've spec'ed a relational database. I had the software to create what you wanted back when PCs ran MS-DOS and nobody'd heard of the "Y2K bug".

(Which is probably a good thing - when I hear "Web 2.0", I think "Facebook spam and Wiki page-vandalization, treated as good things"... You probably don't want the baggage associated with that term.)

[DeDiceManCometh]

Originally Posted by robkelk

Actually, everything you've described is pre-year-2000 thinking - you've spec'ed a relational database. I had the software to create what you wanted back when PCs ran MS-DOS and nobody'd heard of the "Y2K bug".

I invited you explain to me how I spec'd a _relational_ database. Warning: I am a professional in these matters, so think carefully. Second question, where is it written that Web 2.0 functionality precludes a relational database anyway? CMS systems all overlay databases, most of them relational.

SJG can't, perhaps, Open Source the core system and maintain a revenue stream (although, some thought should be given to challenging that assumption)...but it can put it out where the entire community can effectively "open" source house rules and materials in a seamless way with "official" content.

[warmachine]

I always thought something like this was needed but as SJG doesn't have the computer resources, it would be hosted by amateurs around the world. I'm wondering if SJG should make their trait, template, equipment and creature databases (but not rules) publically available and, thus, free. SJG doesn't have the bureaucracy to track which customer has which books or PDFs and is therefore entitled to see which databases. I'm thinking not as it would undermine the sales of their catalogue books (Magic, High-Tech, Ultra-tech etc.). This would reduce the databases to brief descriptions and page references.

[Andrew Hackard]

Discussion of this idea is fine, but let's keep the tone civil.

[ClayDowling]

I'm not seeing the value in this proposition. GURPS materials is of significantly higher quality than the competitors. That quality isn't related to technology, but rather the editorial control that SJGames imposes on what they publish. I have serious doubts that throwing off that control will improve the quality of the product.

Functionally you can already do all of what you're talking about just by using the existing material. If you buy your material as PDFs, you can even easily assemble your own setting/adventure documents just by cutting and pasting into your word processor.

Besides, even with the tagging technology that you're talking about, you'd still need to make a huge number of editorial decisions. If you're telling a detective story, do you use the Investigator from the Basic Set, or the Hard Boiled Detective from Mysteries, or the Police Detective from the same book? Where do you take ghosts from: Basic Set, Fantasy or Horror?

Suddenly the value of the database has gone way down, because you still have to make the editorial decisions for your own campaign.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by DeDiceManCometh

At this point GURPS is so robust, you're not doing anybody any favors by "revising" it without (or with limited) backward compatibility

I don't agree. I have no desire to create a new edition of the rules any time soon, but I don't believe that focusing on the delivery system or the wrapper as opposed to the content is likely to be profitable. Customers fundamentally want new stuff, not a new front end on old stuff. Nothing is as good for the spectacle as slaughtering a few sacred cows for the cause and giving things a good shake. Rewrapping the same old same old and calling it a "new edition" is a fine way to go out of business.

Originally Posted by warmachine

I'm wondering if SJG should make their trait, template, equipment and creature databases (but not rules) publically available and, thus, free.

That won't happen, ever, because as was said upthread:

Originally Posted by DeDiceManCometh

the vast majority of the system is comprised of databases.

And this is indeed true. The majority of GURPS content, and the ovewhelming majority of the hours spent testing and verifying stats, concern these "databases." That translates into nearly all of the money spent to publish GURPS being spent on these things, which means that we expect them to earn their keep. Next to objects such as advantages, skills, spells, martial-arts styles, powers, templates, and equipment, the content that remains is almost a small postscript that doesn't earn enough money to keep GURPS profitable. The proposed model might work for a game that's primarily selling a setting, but that's almost exactly the opposite of GURPS. To a first approximation, GURPS is selling people data that they're supposed to use to build their own settings.