[Spaceships] Pod-Layer Battlewagon

[Cernig]

Following discussion on a few other threads, here's a pod-layer for critique.

(The ECM suites use my Quick Contest house rules. You can replace them with RAW ECM for 600k less cost)

BBG-1P “Honor” Class Pod-Layer

Description: An SM12 un-streamlined design, it hosts 100 Marines and their command as well as it’s crew.

Embarked smaller vessels: PD Drones and missile pods, 4 x100 ton cutters

Systems Table

Front Hull
[1] Hardened Nanocomposite Armor
[2] Tactical Array (Lvl 13 comm/sensor suite, active jam)
[3] Control Room (20 stations, C10 computer, Lvl 11 backup comm/sensor suite)
[4] Habitat (600 cabin equivalent: 40 single cabins (40), 50 double cabins (50), 20 bed automed bay (20), Briefing Room (1) Kitchen and dining room (2), Gym (1), Wardroom (1), Ship’s armory (1), Hangar and stores for four 100 ton modular cutters (100), cargo hold with 1,500 tons 50 x replacement PD drones (300), 420 tons steerage cargo)
[5] Defensive ECM (Lvl 13 hi-power ECM/ECCM suite)
[6] Defensive ECM (Lvl 13 hi-power ECM/ECCM suite)
[Core] -

Central Hull
[1] Hardened Nanocomposite Armor
[2] Fuel Tank (5,000 tons)
[3] Fuel Tank (5,000 tons)
[4] Hangar Bay (3000 tons, 500 ton/min launch, 100 PD drones)
[5] Cargo Hold (5,000 tons: 150 replacement missile pods, 500 tons cargo)
[6] Cargo Hold (5,000 tons: 150 replacement missile pods, 500 tons cargo
[Core] Fuel Tank (5,000 tons)

Rear Hull
[1] Hardened Nanocomposite Armor
[2] Hangar (3000 tons, 500 ton/min launch: 100 missile pods)
[3] Hangar (3000 tons, 500 ton/min launch: 100 missile pods)
[4] M-Drive Hot Reactionless Engine !
[5] M-Drive Hot Reactionless Engine !
[6] Jump-2 Super Stardrive !
[Core] Fusion Reactor (2pp)

Spacecraft Table

TL: 10^
dST/HP: 300 Hnd/SR: -2/5 HT:13 Move: 2G/c SM: +12
DDR: 100h / 100h / 100h LWt: 100,000 tons ( Dton displacement)
Occ: Crew: 20 Control + 12 workspaces, 100 marines + 8 officers/NCOs
Load: 1,420 tons cargo.
Air performance: 0
Annual Operating Costs: $ 5% cost plus fuel.

The class has artificial gravity, gravity compensation, stealth hull and a chameleon skin. It is highly automated.

Cost: $14,016 Million

Missile Pod: SM5, 30 ton. It has a tactical array, a single ECM system, total automation, a C6 computer, stealth and a chameleon skin for $3.64 million. There's no station keeping ability (and no high power requirement, it can operate off auxiliary power) but the rest of the spaces are 17 medium battery 3x16cm missile launchers with 5 missiles apiece for a total of 255 missiles per pod.

“Diomedes Protector” PD Drone: {Yes, that Diomedes, thanks D}

Forward Hull
[1] Medium Battery ! (3x VRF Improved Laser Turrets, 30KJ)
[2] Medium Battery ! (3x VRF Improved Laser Turrets, 30KJ)
[3] Medium Battery ! (3x VRF Improved Laser Turrets, 30KJ)
[4] Medium Battery ! (3x VRF Improved Laser Turrets, 30KJ)
[5] Medium Battery ! (3x VRF Improved Laser Turrets, 30KJ)
[6] Fusion Reactor (2pp)

Midships Hull
[1] Defensive ECM (lvl 6)
[2] Tactical Array (C/S 6)
[3] Medium Battery ! (3x VRF Improved Laser Turrets, 30KJ)
[4] Medium Battery ! (3x VRF Improved Laser Turrets, 30KJ)
[5] Medium Battery ! (3x VRF Improved Laser Turrets, 30KJ)
[6] Fusion Reactor (2pp)
[Core] Fusion Reactor (2pp)

Aft Hull
[1] Control Room (C6 computer, Lvl 4 Sensors, 1 Control Station)
[2] Medium Battery ! (3x VRF Improved Laser Turrets, 30KJ)
[3] M-Drive Hot Reactionless Thruster ! (1G)
[4] M-Drive Hot Reactionless Thruster ! (1G)
[5] Fusion Reactor (2pp)
[6] Fusion Reactor (2pp)
[Core] Fusion Reactor (2pp)

TL: 10^ SM+5
dST: 20 dHP: 20 HT: 12
Hnd: 0 SR: 4
Move: 2/c
Cost: $4.44 million

[David Johnston2]

All punch, no staying power.

[Cernig]

Yup. :-) The guys at Atomic Rocket say that's how space battles will be. "Ten men go in, half a man comes out sort of thing." Once battle is joined it's all about the ratio of forces at that point and over very quickly, despite any defenses. The loser's survivors run away if they can and the winner's survivors pick over the battlefield for what they can salvage.

I don't like it one bit - and I've a few house rules to make gaming space battles more interesting again. In any case, this beast goes in alongside the more conventional beam-armed battlewagons, carriers and arsenal ships as a force multiplier, then gets the hell out of Dodge behind a screen when it has unloaded its pods. If the pod-layer's side wins, they can recover pods and drones. If not, they have other problems.

Regards, C

So, Dave, what would you build to counter the pod-layer?

[safisher]

Originally Posted by Cernig

Yup. :-) The guys at Atomic Rocket say that's how space battles will be.

I'd take their advice with a grain of salt. No one "knows" what space combat will be like -- there are not even any current real-world military plans to build combat spaceships. The Atomic Rocket guys have their uses, but they remind me of Billy Mitchell's tormentors.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

All punch, no staying power.

<shrug> That's the theory of massed missile barrages and if you do kill all your enemies with an overwhelming alpha strike you don't need "staying power".

Recent efforts with Spaceships at TL 10 make the concept of armored warships at TL10 look pretty dubious to me. It can be very hard to armor against a Major Battery beyond 1/2D range from a vessel of the same SM and you can forget about KK missiles and nukes.

It might not be just TL10 either. Back in the original playtest I had trouble making a dreadnought that couldn't be killed by a spinal mount from an attacker 2 SMs smaller.

"You kill them before they can kill you" might be the most practical advice you can receive.

[Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2]

Technology that puts a lot of destructive punch in a small package inevitably means that giant warship designs with an excess of defense are a waste of resources.

This matches real-world warship evolution. The main threat to battleships was at first other battleships. Then torpedo design evolved to the point where a small torpedo boat was the main threat to giant armored warships, which caused the development of the torpedo-boat-destroyer class, or "destroyer", to protect them.

[Cernig]

Two of these to every Pod-Layer as escorts, although they're quite capable of independent action. I needed a quick name idea so Fred got a promotion :-)

DDE-34 Admiral Brackin Class Escort Destroyer

Description: An SM10, un-streamlined 10,000 ton vessel directly tasked to protect larger warships from missile salvos. It has the same J-2 to action, J-1 to safety fuel reserve as most warships.

Systems Table

Front Hull
[1] Hardened Nanocomposite Armor/ 30 cabin Habitat (1 workspace, 3 single cabins (3), 11 2-person cabins (11), Wardroom (1), Gym (1), 1 Ship’s armory (1), 5 bed automed bay (5), 40 tons steerage cargo.)
[2] Control Room (10 stations, 1 workspace, C9 computer, Lvl 9 comm/sensor suite)
[3] Defensive ECM (Lvl 11 hi-power ECM/ECCM suite, 1 workspace)
[4] Defensive ECM (Lvl 11 hi-power ECM/ECCM suite, 1 workspace)
[5] Fusion Reactor (2 pp, 1 workspace)
[6] Major battery! (3GJ UV Laser, fixed forwards, 1 workspace)
[Core] -

Central Hull
[1] Hardened Nanocomposite Armor/ 250 ton Fuel Tank
[2] 500 ton Fuel Tank
[3] 500 ton Fuel Tank
[4] Tertiary Battery ! (30x 1MJ improved VRF Lasers, turreted. 1 workspace)
[5] Tertiary Battery ! (30x 1MJ improved VRF Lasers, turreted. 1 workspace)
[6] Jump-2 Super Stardrive !! (1 workspace)
[Core] Fusion Reactor (2 pp, 1 workspace)

Rear Hull
[1] Hardened Nanocomposite Armor/ 250 ton Fuel Tank
[2] Hangar Bay (300 ton, launch100 ton/min: 10x 30 ton Diomedes Protector” PD Drones)
[3] Hangar Bay (300 ton, launch100 ton/min: 10x 30 ton Diomedes Protector” PD Drones)
[4] M-Drive Hot Reactionless Engine ! (1 workspace)
[5] M-Drive Hot Reactionless Engine ! (1 workspace)
[6] M-Drive Hot Reactionless Engine ! (1 workspace)
[Core] Fusion Reactor (2 pp, 1 workspace)

Spacecraft Table

TL: 10^
dST/HP: 150 Hnd/SR: -2/5 HT:13 Move: 3G/c SM: +10
DDR: 15h / 15h / 15h LWt: 10,000 tons ( 2,000 Dton displacement)
Occ: Crew: 10 Control + 15 workspaces
Load: 40 tons cargo.
Air performance: 0
Annual Operating Costs: $ 5% cost plus fuel.

The class has artificial gravity and gravity compensation, a stealth hull and chameleon skin.

Cost: $1,836 million

[vicky_molokh]

Originally Posted by Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2

Technology that puts a lot of destructive punch in a small package inevitably means that giant warship designs with an excess of defense are a waste of resources.

This matches real-world warship evolution. The main threat to battleships was at first other battleships. Then torpedo design evolved to the point where a small torpedo boat was the main threat to giant armored warships, which caused the development of the torpedo-boat-destroyer class, or "destroyer", to protect them.

BTW, why fight in space anyway if an armada or the right type of rocket-bombers can simply destroy everything on the planetary surface?

[Adelus]

Originally Posted by Molokh

BTW, why fight in space anyway if an armada or the right type of rocket-bombers can simply destroy everything on the planetary surface?

Jump gate defense?

Intercepting someone before they can get to the planet?

[Mysterious Dark Lord v3.2]

Originally Posted by Molokh

BTW, why fight in space anyway if an armada or the right type of rocket-bombers can simply destroy everything on the planetary surface?

The pod-layer-style warships come from the Honor Harrington stories. And in the Honorverse, they have the Eridani Accords, which state that ANYONE who kills a planet gets killed by EVERYONE ELSE. So blowing up a planetary surface is a no-no. (And just blowing up the target is almost impossible, since a planetary surface can hold as many defensive batteries as you want.)