Inanimate sacrifice in Thaumathology

[Huyderman]

Under the rules for Inanimate sacrifice in Thaumathology, it recommends [starting wealth/250] per energy. Isn't this awfully cheap? In a typical TL3 campaign, this comes to $4 per energy. Meaning that a wizard can power a typical 9d fireball for just a $32 sacrifice (assuming 15 skill).
It also struck me as a whole lot cheaper than the sacrifice rules first introduced in GURPS Fantasy.

[CraigR]

$32 every time you shoot off a fireball can be rather steep, if you expect to fire off more than one per combat. And that would be $68 per shot for an explosive fireball (assuming the same 15 skill)

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Huyderman

Under the rules for Inanimate sacrifice in Thaumathology, it recommends [starting wealth/250] per energy. Isn't this awfully cheap? In a typical TL3 campaign, this comes to $4 per energy. Meaning that a wizard can power a typical 9d fireball for just a $32 sacrifice (assuming 15 skill).
It also struck me as a whole lot cheaper than the sacrifice rules first introduced in GURPS Fantasy.

Of course he needs Magery 3 and 3 seconds to build a 9d fireball.

Still, depends on how you think about it. If you are using this for a system of material components - i.e. you never spend fatigue but must sacrifice items of equivalent value to cast the spell, this seems like a pretty reasonable ratio. If you are using it as an extra fatigue source to cast an enchantment, this gives you approximately the 1 cp per 25 energy that's often been used (Cf signature gear or meditative magic in Fantasy) scaled against the 1 point/10% trading cash for wealth rules. It's a little cheap compared to the $33/point for the recommended cash cost of magic items in Magic, but that's scaled on the assumption it pretty much uses up all the enchanter's time for months at a stretch. And hey, $32 will buy me enough gunpowder for a 20d explosion, so I'm losing out if I sacrifice it for a 9d one.

I'll admit, it may not be such a good ratio for a Dungeon Fantasy game where gold flows like water past the PCs without charging them the points for Filthy Rich, but its not unreasonable for a lot of applications. You can always adjust it if necessary.

Yes it's a different deal than the voodoo inspired version in Fantasy. So? I think Thaumatology makes it pretty clear sacrifice yields are an adjustable parameter depending on what you are looking form in a setting, and versions of this debate in the playtest are *why*. 250/starting wealth is scaled more around alchemy and material components than offerings to the gods. But then gods are not usually real interested in material things, so it's hardly suprising if they don't offer you as much in trade for them.

[Huyderman]

My fireball example was probably not the best example, but there are other examples. E.g. Resurection at 300 energy, becomes "only" $1200 at TL3. IMHO this might seem a little on the cheap side..

[malloyd]

Originally Posted by Huyderman

My fireball example was probably not the best example, but there are other examples. E.g. Resurection at 300 energy, becomes "only" $1200 at TL3. IMHO this might seem a little on the cheap side..

Well YMMV, but doesn't seem that bad to me. More than the value of everything a normal person might own, and that's *just* for the cost of the stuff evaporated in casting, exclusive of the caster's fee. This doesn't seem too far out for the sort of fantasy world where there are enough people around who can cast the spell in the first place for it to be a significant issue.

[Bruno]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Well YMMV, but doesn't seem that bad to me. More than the value of everything a normal person might own, and that's *just* for the cost of the stuff evaporated in casting, exclusive of the caster's fee.

The point about the casters fee is a good one. If I bring a surgeon all the supplies he needs, someone is still going to have to pay him for an hour of his time for the surgery (insurance company, government, AMEX, whatever).

Even if this is a service being picked up at the Temple Of The Healing Goddess Who Loves Everyone and the celebrant running the Resurrection is Piffany, who also loves everyone, High Priestess Piffany isn't going to let you off free if you aren't a regular member of the congregation who's been paying your tithes regularly. (Tithing! It's like health insurance in the fantasy world)
She's soft hearted, but if you have the cash to help fund the temple, she's going to hit you up for it. The more cash you have, the more she's going to guilt-trip you. If you don't, she'll encourage you to tithe heavily going forward, or volunteer your time helping out widows and orphans, or go on a quest to get rid of Icky Bad People, or whatever.

Originally Posted by malloyd

This doesn't seem too far out for the sort of fantasy world where there are enough people around who can cast the spell in the first place for it to be a significant issue.

[Pesterfield]

The low cost, and maybe even lower, would work well for some rituals. Where the diety likes the symbolism of a thing more than the actual object.

[Gizensha]

Originally Posted by Huyderman

My fireball example was probably not the best example, but there are other examples. E.g. Resurection at 300 energy, becomes "only" $1200 at TL3. IMHO this might seem a little on the cheap side..

Don't forget that $800 of the $1k starting wealth for an average person will be difficult to access immediately, so the cost of Resurrection is 6x what most people without wealth would be starting the campaign with. Taking into account the cost of living, would require saving for a year if you were living at status 0.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by malloyd

Of course he needs Magery 3 and 3 seconds to build a 9d fireball.

Still, depends on how you think about it. If you are using this for a system of material components - i.e. you never spend fatigue but must sacrifice items of equivalent value to cast the spell, this seems like a pretty reasonable ratio. If you are using it as an extra fatigue source to cast an enchantment, this gives you approximately the 1 cp per 25 energy that's often been used (Cf signature gear or meditative magic in Fantasy) scaled against the 1 point/10% trading cash for wealth rules. It's a little cheap compared to the $33/point for the recommended cash cost of magic items in Magic, but that's scaled on the assumption it pretty much uses up all the enchanter's time for months at a stretch. And hey, $32 will buy me enough gunpowder for a 20d explosion, so I'm losing out if I sacrifice it for a 9d one.

Note it is $1 a point for Q&D magic.

[Not another shrubbery]

Originally Posted by Huyderman

It also struck me as a whole lot cheaper than the sacrifice rules first introduced in GURPS Fantasy.

Quite a bit cheaper. The exchange rate suggested for Sacrificial Magic (Fantasy, p165) is 10% of starting wealth for one energy point. You should tinker with it and try it out in play to get a feel for how changing the rate will affect the game. Both figures seem extreme to me... I'd probably go with an intermediate value of 1% or 2% per energy point.