Noob Q: Defense and Vision

[stilleon]

Does a vision penalty for darkness apply to both an attack and defense rolls?

Thanks

[Naryt]

Originally Posted by stilleon

Does a vision penalty for darkness apply to both an attack and defense rolls?

Thanks

Yes but they are different depending on whether you are attacking or defending. See B394 for details.

[stilleon]

Originally Posted by Naryt

Yes but they are different depending on whether you are attacking or defending. See B394 for details.

I'm talking about say a -3 penalty for low light, not the mods on p. 394. Like you would give to an attack.

[Naryt]

Originally Posted by stilleon

I'm talking about say a -3 penalty for low light, not the mods on p. 394. Like you would give to an attack.

My mistake. After reading B394 over again (and again and...well, yeah), I would say it's quite unclear and just apply the penalty equally for convenience.

However, as I like my players I would, in practice, likely only give a 2/3 penalty for defenses. I'm basing that on the difference between an attacker who cannot see his foe but can see his surroundings (-6) and a defender who cannot see his foe but can see his surroundings (-4). I would also not make a distinction between Dodge/Block/Parry and just give them all the same penalty.

So for the -3 in low light, I would give -2 to defenses. Not exactly RAW but seems in line with what's available.

[stilleon]

I'm confuzzled myself, however I don't think it applies. Check the combat modifiers at the end of Campaings:

Under the melee attacks (p. 547) it notes:

Visibility
• Cannot see anything: -10 (-6, if used to blindness)
• Cannot see foe: -6, or -4 if you know his location to within 1 yard
• Partial darkness, fog, smoke, etc.: -1 to -9 (GM's option)

Under Ranged Attacks (p. 548):

Visibility
• Blind, target completely invisible, or in total darkness: -10*
• Cannot see foe: -6, or -4 if you know his location to within 1 yard*
• Partial darkness, fog, smoke, etc.: -1 to -9 (GM's option)
• Target has light concealment (e.g., bushes): -2

In both cases "Partial Darkness" is listed as a penalty that may be applied to an attack roll.

However, under Active Defenses (p. 549) under the "Defender's Situation" it lists nothing about Partial Darkness penalties, only a -4 for not being able to see the attacker.

I also notice also that Shock penalties apply to Melee and Ranged attacks, but shock is not applied to Defense Rolls.

Shock and vision penalties are applied to "skill rolls." Is defense considered a skill roll?

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by stilleon

I'm talking about say a -3 penalty for low light, not the mods on p. 394. Like you would give to an attack.

No. Darkness makes it harder to hit, not easier.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by stilleon

Does a vision penalty for darkness apply to both an attack and defense rolls?

Thanks

No. Being hard to see is a net advantage when you are trying to avoid getting hit.

[Naryt]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

No. Being hard to see is a net advantage when you are trying to avoid getting hit.

Hmmm...good point but what about Parry and Block where you are, in essence, attacking as your defense?

[LoganSaj]

The description for Blind fighting indicates "A successful roll allows one melee attack or active defense without any penalties or lighting (even total darkness), blindness or an invisible foe." And Blindness indicates a -6 to all combat skills (which I assume would be -3 to all defenses), or -10 if sudden (which is more like sudden darkness).

[trooper6]

Resurrection!

We are currently in an arena game with -3 Darkness penalties.

So, to reiterate the above question.
So. Fighter A has Broadsword-16 (Parry 13), Medium Shield-16 (Block-13) [There is a +2 DB bonus factored in]
With the Darkness penalties of -3, do we have:
Fighter A has Broadsword-13 (Parry 11), Medium Shield-13 (Block-11) [There is a +2 DB bonus factored in, Darkness affects Parry and Block, but not dodge]

or

Fighter A has Broadsword-13 (Parry 13), Medium Shield-13 (Block-13) [There is a +2 DB bonus factored in, Darkness does not affect defenses]

Presumably, Dodge--not being skill based--is not affected either way.