GURPS Horror Fantasy, fun or unfun?

[b-dog]

I was just curious about what people think of games like Ravenloft and maybe Call of Cthulhu mixed with fantasy. I would say that I enjoyed the times I played Ravenloft games ( used to have a DM that loved horror ) and would enjoy playing Call of Cthulhu with a fantasy character. I think that Horror and Fantasy are a great mix from dark temples of Elder Things to dark castles of evil vampires. What do you think?

[Peter Knutsen]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I was just curious about what people think of games like Ravenloft and maybe Call of Cthulhu mixed with fantasy. I would say that I enjoyed the times I played Ravenloft games ( used to have a DM that loved horror ) and would enjoy playing Call of Cthulhu with a fantasy character. I think that Horror and Fantasy are a great mix from dark temples of Elder Things to dark castles of evil vampires. What do you think?

If a GM tells me that he likes Call of Cthulhu, or enjoys GMing or, or thinks it is good or has any intrinsic value, then I know everything I need to know about him, on order to decide whether or not I should ever try playing in a campaign of his.

(Same with X-Files, by the way, although for somewhat different reasons.)

[Lonewulf]

That could have been both a positive and a negative opinion of him, Peter. Care to elaborate?

Personally, I wouldn't mind playing in a game like that, but I WOULD ask the GM to at least give me a CHANCE to survive... I don't like playing a game in which you don't have a prayer.

Of course, if I did something stupid, then I deserve it. ;)

[macphersonrants]

For my part, horror is an important component of most fantasy. If the evil nasties weren't a little bit scary it wouldn't work very well (and if a lot of them, including even standard RPG monsters like orcs aren't at least a little scary for you, you probably don't have a lot of imagination).

That said I think that to really enjoy a fantasy RPG I need to be able to at least contemplate triumphing over the boss monsters in one way or another, which would make a straight COC conversion a little bit shaky in my view. Ravenloft on the other hand would be more or less right up my alley.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by macphersonrants

For my part, horror is an important component of most fantasy. If the evil nasties weren't a little bit scary it wouldn't work very well (and if a lot of them, including even standard RPG monsters like orcs aren't at least a little scary for you, you probably don't have a lot of imagination).

That said I think that to really enjoy a fantasy RPG I need to be able to at least contemplate triumphing over the boss monsters in one way or another, which would make a straight COC conversion a little bit shaky in my view. Ravenloft on the other hand would be more or less right up my alley.

You would have a way to defeat monsters directly such as a vampire, werewolf, evil cultists or lesser minions of some eldritch fiend. But your characters would have to thwart the plans indirectly of a greater horror like the Devil or an Elder God possibly through finding some secret scroll of banishment or destroying the magic items that allow the fiend to come to this plane. There would be Fright Checks in this kind of adventure.

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by macphersonrants

For my part, horror is an important component of most fantasy. If the evil nasties weren't a little bit scary it wouldn't work very well (and if a lot of them, including even standard RPG monsters like orcs aren't at least a little scary for you, you probably don't have a lot of imagination).

That said I think that to really enjoy a fantasy RPG I need to be able to at least contemplate triumphing over the boss monsters in one way or another, which would make a straight COC conversion a little bit shaky in my view. Ravenloft on the other hand would be more or less right up my alley.

"Horror" is not about being a little bit scary. Riding the roller coaster is a little bit scary, but you're fine at the end and that makes it not horror. If on the other hand you see the coaster coming apart ahead of you...and then you plunge to your deaths...or you wake up and the doctors tell you you'll never walk again...that's horror. So is Ravenloft really horror? Not the way I think it is generally run. It's Buffy in medieval dress.

[Lonewulf]

Originally Posted by David Johnston2

"Horror" is not about being a little bit scary. Riding the roller coaster is a little bit scary, but you're fine at the end and that makes it not horror. If on the other hand you see the coaster coming apart ahead of you...and then you plunge to your deaths...or you wake up and the doctors tell you you'll never walk again...that's horror.

Ah, so they weren't playing a true scotsman... I mean, a true horror game, as you've defined it. ;)

It seems that everyone has their own ideas as to what "horror" is.

"OMG YOU MUST ALL TPK" doesn't strike me as the "only" way to do horror, personally, but what do I know?

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by Lonewulf

That could have been both a positive and a negative opinion of him, Peter. Care to elaborate?

Personally, I wouldn't mind playing in a game like that, but I WOULD ask the GM to at least give me a CHANCE to survive... I don't like playing a game in which you don't have a prayer.

Of course, if I did something stupid, then I deserve it. ;)

I'm not necessarily saying deadlier, just scarier or creepier. Maybe the dungeon has strange shadows darting just out of sight or there are scampering noises that sound like something is in the walls or strange howling or wailing coming from somewhere. That kind of stuff. There may be less fodder monsters but there would be more creepy elements like a room with skulls hanging from chains that are attached to the ceiling.

[Turhan's Bey Company]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I was just curious about what people think of games like Ravenloft and maybe Call of Cthulhu mixed with fantasy. I would say that I enjoyed the times I played Ravenloft games ( used to have a DM that loved horror ) and would enjoy playing Call of Cthulhu with a fantasy character. I think that Horror and Fantasy are a great mix from dark temples of Elder Things to dark castles of evil vampires. What do you think?

If, by fantasy, you mean the sort of swords and sorcerey you find in conventional fantasy RPGs, I prefer not to mix them. A significant component of conventional fantasy games is power fantasy. One plays the cunning wizard, mighty warrior, etc., precisely because they are or can potentially be very effective relative to the threats they can encounter. Even ignoring that, the defining characteristic of most character types is courage.

CoC-style horror, by contrast, is essentially a futility fantasy. Although one may overcome this or that individual threat, you know that you're facing ultimately unstoppable opposition and face inevitable decline into madness. Even ignoring that, the defining characteristic of most characters is that they're often paralyzed or driven off by fear.

So it seems to me that conventional fantasy and horror are trying to achieve almost completely opposite ends. Either is totally cool on its own, but I've never experienced them mixing well. When I see them combined, one of them inevitably comes to predominate. You either get a conventional fantasy game with squidgier monsters or a horror game where the PCs happen to carry a different class of useless weapons.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Turhan's Bey Company

Even ignoring that, the defining characteristic of most characters is that they're often paralyzed or driven off by fear.

So it seems to me that conventional fantasy and horror are trying to achieve almost completely opposite ends.

This is good analysis and I agree with it.

The paralyzed by fear part is also quite relevant. CoC is something that happens to ordinary people and usually only once.

On the other hand, when you add up the things that have happened to a mid to upper level D&D character _and they've survived_ (swallowed by Gelatinopus Cube, carnivorous beetle swarm, Tyrannosaur, Dragon) having them paralyzed by fear just isn't very reasonable.

This is not to say that a game of Conan the Vampire Slayer might not be amusing but like the Sunnydale Scoobies everyone involved should have bought Unfazeable (with at most a Quirk-level residual fear) after the first season/couple of levels.