Wealth in DF

[blacksmith]

As dungeon delving needs to be a relatively lucurative field for a variety of reasons, how does such changes in ammount of money relate to wealth advantages and disadvantages?

It seems that haveing little money to start with makes the most sense as to make enough to say justify healing potions and the like you will quickly make enough money to get 1000 worth of gear.

Also with say weapon bonds and getting new magic swords can you transfer it? Enchantment of such things can take an very long time after all.

[Harald387]

As dungeon delving needs to be a relatively lucurative field for a variety of reasons, how does such changes in ammount of money relate to wealth advantages and disadvantages?

It seems that haveing little money to start with makes the most sense as to make enough to say justify healing potions and the like you will quickly make enough money to get 1000 worth of gear.

Wealth has a slightly different effect in Dungeon Fantasy than in Basic Set; it modifies your starting money, but after play begins it represents 'Business Contacts' which will let you sell loot at a higher percentage of base cost. This is outlined on pages 14-15 of DF: Dungeons and on page 23 of DF: Adventurers. Making money doesn't necessarily equate to higher levels of Wealth (though a GM might allow a PC to buy it with earned CP); it just means you have more cash to buy more stuff.

Also with say weapon bonds and getting new magic swords can you transfer it? Enchantment of such things can take an very long time after all.

Weapon Bond is specifically for that weapon and is non-transferable. I recommend making your Weapon Bond be both Signature Gear and fairly high-quality at the outset in order to ensure this will be a point well spent.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Harald387

Weapon Bond is specifically for that weapon and is non-transferable. I recommend making your Weapon Bond be both Signature Gear and fairly high-quality at the outset in order to ensure this will be a point well spent.

That can quickly get into a lot of points of signature gear.

Again this is not so much a problem in many games as you often don't get such incomes in other games.

edit: For example you want to make a fencer, so you take the rapier from martial arts that can cut and thrust, it starts as 1000, it weights 3 pounds and so you make it unbreakable(now 9000), it needs to get through armor so you add penetrating (14000). That is 28 points in signature gear right there.

Now the guy who finds it is in luck as they have an extra 28 points for skills and atributes. So he spends them on his rapier skill and kills the guy with the good swords and loots his body.

[Harald387]

It's Signature Gear; I'm not overly worried about breakage, assuming I play intelligently, because I've spent points that say my GM should give me a chance to get it repaired if it breaks through no real fault of my own. If I make a point of always parrying the Ogre's two-handed clubs with it, I deserve to have it break. I'd probably make it Fine (again, using the Dungeon Fantasy rules) for a final cost of $4000 - and a swashbuckler starting with an 8-point Signature Gear sword is perfectly rational to me.

As for penetrating armor, spend those points on more skill (or Targeted Attack techniques) in order to aim for chinks in armor or go for the eyes. Starting adventurers shouldn't have too much need for a Penetrating weapon anyway, and experienced ones can either take the time to intimately learn the balance of their new magic sword (by spending another point for Weapon Bond) or else just live with the fact that they've lost +1 to skill.

If it transferred from weapon to weapon, it would be no different from +1 skill, for 1/4 the cost - and that's silly.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Harald387

It's Signature Gear; I'm not overly worried about breakage, assuming I play intelligently, because I've spent points that say my GM should give me a chance to get it repaired if it breaks through no real fault of my own. If I make a point of always parrying the Ogre's two-handed clubs with it, I deserve to have it break. I'd probably make it Fine (again, using the Dungeon Fantasy rules) for a final cost of $4000 - and a swashbuckler starting with an 8-point Signature Gear sword is perfectly rational to me.

As for penetrating armor, spend those points on more skill (or Targeted Attack techniques) in order to aim for chinks in armor or go for the eyes. Starting adventurers shouldn't have too much need for a Penetrating weapon anyway, and experienced ones can either take the time to intimately learn the balance of their new magic sword (by spending another point for Weapon Bond) or else just live with the fact that they've lost +1 to skill.

Yep and there go the 8 points for signature gear.

And why are 250 point characters thought of as starting? 250 points is plenty to face things like Golems and other high DR things. Look at the dual golem swordsman from Dungeons, a swashbuckler with out a penetrating weapon is so pointless against him.

If it transferred from weapon to weapon, it would be no different from +1 skill, for 1/4 the cost - and that's silly.

DF has accurate for a x4 in the cost of a weapon you get a +1 to all rolls with it.

[Kromm]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

Look at the dual golem swordsman from Dungeons, a swashbuckler with out a penetrating weapon is so pointless against him.

Well, different challenges need different adventurers to step up. But note "it seems to have the usual human vulnerabilities at the head and vitals" and Injury Tolerance (No Blood) but no other IT. The smart swashbuckler will aim at chinks in armor (DR 9), and of course it was his choice not to spend any of his 60 discretionary points on the ST +1 to +6 and Striking ST 1 or 2 on his template. If he wants to kill golems with a rapier, maybe ST 15, Striking ST 2, and a swung sword is the way to go.

[Extrarius]

Originally Posted by blacksmith

[...]edit: For example you want to make a fencer, so you take the rapier from martial arts that can cut and thrust, it starts as 1000, it weights 3 pounds and so you make it unbreakable(now 9000), it needs to get through armor so you add penetrating (14000). That is 28 points in signature gear right there.

Now the guy who finds it is in luck as they have an extra 28 points for skills and atributes. So he spends them on his rapier skill and kills the guy with the good swords and loots his body.

The guy that bought the sword with points, barring other differences, should still find the same sword for treasure as the second guy. That means he can now sell it and use the money to further enchant his already-nice sword.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Extrarius

The guy that bought the sword with points, barring other differences, should still find the same sword for treasure as the second guy. That means he can now sell it and use the money to further enchant his already-nice sword.

Enchant a sword? Ok, he will then have to give it up for a couple of years. What a great way to screw players out of their signature gear and their money!

Hats off to a truely evil GM.

[Harald387]

Yep and there go the 8 points for signature gear.

And why are 250 point characters thought of as starting? 250 points is plenty to face things like Golems and other high DR things. Look at the dual golem swordsman from Dungeons, a swashbuckler with out a penetrating weapon is so pointless against him.

250 points is thought of as 'starting' because that's what Dungeon Fantasy recommends for starting characters and provides in its templates. In fact, 250 points is a pretty seasoned adventurer, but I wouldn't really be wanting to crawl into a dungeon full of nasties with some rank noob anyway. If you want to represent some of that 250 points as 'I have a magic penetrating sword', you'll have a leg up against high-DR critters over the guy who took more skill; you trade off in that you don't have his skills. This is fair and balanced.

As for swashbucklers being pointless, if you're referring to the Golem-Armor Swordsman on page 24, anything shy of a Barbarian is going to have trouble piercing his DR straight up. However, his armor has chinks, the golem has eyes (and is specifically described as apparently having the normal human vulnerabilities in the head and vitals), and any Swashbuckler worth his salt is going to be aiming for one or the other. I wouldn't call a Penetrating weapon a 'requirement' by any stretch.

DF has accurate for a x4 in the cost of a weapon you get a +1 to all rolls with it.

That's 'Balanced', which still doesn't transfer from weapon to weapon, and has a cash value rather than a point value.

[blacksmith]

Originally Posted by Harald387

250 points is thought of as 'starting' because that's what Dungeon Fantasy recommends for starting characters and provides in its templates. In fact, 250 points is a pretty seasoned adventurer, but I wouldn't really be wanting to crawl into a dungeon full of nasties with some rank noob anyway. If you want to represent some of that 250 points as 'I have a magic penetrating sword', you'll have a leg up against high-DR critters over the guy who took more skill; you trade off in that you don't have his skills. This is fair and balanced.

The problem is that it might well be fair and ballanced innitialy. But then everyone one raids a dungeon and gets 10,000 in equipment, suddenly the guy who didn't start off with the equipment, but skills has a serious advantage.

Everyone gets better equipment over the course of the game, so unless you make it so that the equipment guy still has equipment an order of magnitude more valuable than everyone else, he made a bad decision.