[Basic set] How and when does resuscitation works?

[Sigrif]

I don't understand resuscitation rules. I've searched forum for answers, but found only more questions. I hope Kromm will answer this, but any help is important.

Firstly, when do you need to use it? Heart attack is obvious, but what about suffocation? Do you use it when victim is at 0 FP, 0 HP, -1xHP, mortal wound or died? And when do you start to drawning?

Second one is how much time you have for resuscitation and how it deal with -5xHP? You need at least one minute to resuscitate, which means 60 more damage from suffocation when you drown or choke. And when you resuscitated at -5xHP do you die anyway?

Maybe i will need some more explanations, but for now i must know at least that. Help me please

[Flowergarden]

Hi,
First: patient cannot breathe on it's own. I would say it's 0FP and Unconsciousness from drowning, when he was fully submerged. After that he gets water in his lungs, and this is the moment when you want to do your resuscitation. At least it's my interpretation
When you start drowning is on page 354 Basic.
Okay, for next you better get Biotech book. It has extended rules on resuscitation

[Tinman]

Well in real life, resuscitation is used when the person is not breathing and/or no pulse. The most common uses are heart-attack, drowning or choking.

[Pursuivant]

It isn't clearly stated, but you only need to use Resuscitation on asphyxiated or drowned people who aren't breathing.

Other than that, you're right. Per the rules in GURPS Basic Set, a Drowned of Suffocated person loses 1 FP/second, which also inflicts 1 HP of damage/second when they're at FP 0 or below. At -FP, they begin to take 1 HP of damage instead. That means 60 HP/minute.

That's an error in the rules, which state elsewhere that an unconscious normal human can safely go without oxygen for 2 minutes, but risks brain injury beyond that point and will die due to brain death after 4 minutes. It also makes it nearly impossible to resuscitate badly injured characters who also suffer the effects of Drowning or Suffocation.

I have a feeling that GURPS GMs have collectively determined that this rule fails a "reality check" and have been improvising all these years.

There are optional rules which cover some topics you're interested in in detail starting on p.123 of GURPS Biotech, but they don't solve the problems with the basic rules.

The most important change is that First Aid skill can be used to clear the airway of a choking victim and an attempt can be made every 2 seconds.

At TL7+ Artificial Respiration can "reset the clock" for FP and HP loss as long as a First Aid provider can provide it. Cardiopulmonary Resuscitation (CPR) "resets the clock" for damage due to a stopped heart. Realistically, it has little chance of success of restarting the victim's heart, however.

As an ignorant attempt to implement a more realistic House Rule, I'd say:

* Unless you swallow water or inhale gas, FP and HP damage only begins once you exceed the amount of time you can hold your breath while engaged in Moderate Exertion if you're suffocating or Heavy Exertion if you're struggling to avoid drowning or suffocation. A character who can keep calm can use the resting rate for breath holding.

* Once you start taking HP damage, assume that someone who isn't getting air suffers the equivalent of a Heart Attack and will die in HT/3 minutes without aid.

* The character suffers 1 HP of damage per HT/2 seconds from oxygen deprivation once they're below 0 FP. For a normal person, that works out to 12 HP/minute. After 1 minute, they're below -HP and must make a roll to avoid Death. After 2 minutes, they're at -HP x 2 and must make a roll to avoid Death at -1, etc. until they die after HT/3 minutes.

*At TL7+ artificial respiration and CPR "reset the clock" ticking down to the time the patient dies, but don't restore lost HP or FP.

*An unconscious patient who is still breathing or receiving artificial respiration can recover FP normally but can't recover consciousness until breathing is restarted.

Realistically, there are situations where people have survived unharmed after far greater periods without respiration, particularly in the case of Cold Water Diving Reflex, but I'm trying to keep things simple.

[Sigrif]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

That's an error in the rules, which state elsewhere that an unconscious normal human can safely go without oxygen for 2 minutes, but risks brain injury beyond that point and will die due to brain death after 4 minutes. It also makes it nearly impossible to resuscitate badly injured characters who also suffer the effects of Drowning or Suffocation.

I have a feeling that GURPS GMs have collectively determined that this rule fails a "reality check" and have been improvising all these years.

There are optional rules which cover some topics you're interested in in detail starting on p.123 of GURPS Biotech, but they don't solve the problems with the basic rules.

Thanks for your answer. I will read bio-tech, maybe that will help. For now i understand that noone understands that rule at full)))
That's why i hope for an answer from Kromm.

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

As an ignorant attempt to implement a more realistic House Rule, I'd say:

* Unless you swallow water or inhale gas, FP and HP damage only begins once you exceed the amount of time you can hold your breath while engaged in Moderate Exertion if you're suffocating or Heavy Exertion if you're struggling to avoid drowning or suffocation. A character who can keep calm can use the resting rate for breath holding.

* Once you start taking HP damage, assume that someone who isn't getting air suffers the equivalent of a Heart Attack and will die in HT/3 minutes without aid.

* The character suffers 1 HP of damage per HT/2 seconds from oxygen deprivation once they're below 0 FP. For a normal person, that works out to 12 HP/minute. After 1 minute, they're below -HP and must make a roll to avoid Death. After 2 minutes, they're at -HP x 2 and must make a roll to avoid Death at -1, etc. until they die after HT/3 minutes.

*At TL7+ artificial respiration and CPR "reset the clock" ticking down to the time the patient dies, but don't restore lost HP or FP.

*An unconscious patient who is still breathing or receiving artificial respiration can recover FP normally but can't recover consciousness until breathing is restarted.

That variant of homerule is interesting, maybe i'll try it someday. Thanks again)