What Items would you allow in Classic Builds ? (DCW Era)

[Racer]

Combat Garage - which is down at the moment - seems rather inconsistent over this . Various Items introduced later fit quite nicely into 'Classic Car Wars Builds' that should date from around 1985 ?

Amongst things we'd include :

Off Road Tires - not just OR Solids .
Single Weapon Computers - A no brainer .
Armoured Wheel Hubs - Obvious choice . And the Cycle Versions that weigh 50% of Car versions .
Chassis Strength on Trikes - Again obvious .
Junk Droppers - Won't effect game balance .
Armour Piercing Ammo for Rockets .
Vehicular Shotguns - Low Damage and light item . Including them won't have any impact .
Flechette Guns - they are pretty useless , so won't affect game balence .
Drop-Spike Plates - A nasty One Shot surprise for tailgaters .
Smoke and Paint Grenades .
Weapon Timer .
Magazine Switch - Simple item , and easily fits into Classic .
Fake Weapons , Wheelguards and Wheel Hubs .

I'm sure other people would include more items as well ?

On this subject , it seems many people think neither Improved Fire Extinguishers or Laser Reflective Armour is in Classic for some reasons ? Possibly this stems from them being mentioned in the equipment section of AADA Vehicle Guide 1 , BUT no Vehicles in that book being equipped with them ?
Both are certainly mentioned in Deluxe Car Wars . Just another one of the oddities ...

[43Supporter]

When you realize there are still no rules for Binoculars in _CW_....

Way-back-when, we'd keep running across situations where we needed some item or other; our solution was to to go the newspaper, get the Big5 or other sporting-good-store ad section, and figure out from those what the item ought to cost and weigh. (Just typing that sentence makes me do an impression of Walter Donovan's demise in _Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade_. .:) )

[Racer]

Originally Posted by 43Supporter

When you realize there are still no rules for Binoculars in _CW_....

Well there are the Spotting Rules in Car Wars : Tanks .

Think it's one of those things that's down to common sense ? Can you spot a Fake Weapon from 100 feet away with Binoculars ? Sure ...

And perhaps Bonus to Indirect Fire or long range fire , where Binoculars are used to see fall of shot ? Probably a up to a +2 or +3 Bonus depending on circumstances ...

Just remembered another item to add to the Classic List :
Portable Fire Extinguishers ... yeah another no brainer ...

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by Racer

Just remembered another item to add to the Classic List :
Portable Fire Extinguishers ... yeah another no brainer ...

[nod]

This is what happens when a game breaks bigger than anticipated.... .:)

[juris]

To answer the original question - Everything from Uncle Schmalberts obviously

[ak_aramis]

I've occasionally allowed nukes from Uncle Schmal, but I picked a year for each campaign, and nothing from newer sources is used, excepting the grilled cheese.

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by Racer

Combat Garage - which is down at the moment - seems rather inconsistent over this . Various Items introduced later fit quite nicely into 'Classic Car Wars Builds' that should date from around 1985 ?

Amongst things we'd include :

Off Road Tires - not just OR Solids .
Single Weapon Computers - A no brainer .
Armoured Wheel Hubs - Obvious choice . And the Cycle Versions that weigh 50% of Car versions .
Chassis Strength on Trikes - Again obvious .
Junk Droppers - Won't effect game balance .
Armour Piercing Ammo for Rockets .
Vehicular Shotguns - Low Damage and light item . Including them won't have any impact .
Flechette Guns - they are pretty useless , so won't affect game balence .
Drop-Spike Plates - A nasty One Shot surprise for tailgaters .
Smoke and Paint Grenades .
Weapon Timer .
Magazine Switch - Simple item , and easily fits into Classic .
Fake Weapons , Wheelguards and Wheel Hubs .

I'm sure other people would include more items as well ?

On this subject , it seems many people think neither Improved Fire Extinguishers or Laser Reflective Armour is in Classic for some reasons ? Possibly this stems from them being mentioned in the equipment section of AADA Vehicle Guide 1 , BUT no Vehicles in that book being equipped with them ?
Both are certainly mentioned in Deluxe Car Wars . Just another one of the oddities ...

LR armor and the IFE weren't around when VG1 was released (which was well before the DCW rules came out). The Classic Car Wars rules came out after the Compendium did (which was the successor to the original DCW rules). Which is why some of the items included seem a bit mixed up. Trying to compare the selections in the Classic set to a pre-DCW era doesn't really work all that well, because they just don't match up with when they were created.

FWIW, we just use the UACFH options, which covers everything. Trying to match stuff up... you really have to know when stuff came out to make sense of things, and even then things can be a bit wonky.

[Racer]

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

LR armor and the IFE weren't around when VG1 was released (which was well before the DCW rules came out). The Classic Car Wars rules came out after the Compendium did (which was the successor to the original DCW rules). Which is why some of the items inclu toded seem a bit mixed up. Trying to compare the selections in the Classic set to a pre-DCW era doesn't really work all that well, because they just don't match up with when they were created.

FWIW, we just use the UACFH options, which covers everything. Trying to match stuff up... you really have to know when stuff came out to make sense of things, and even then things can be a bit wonky.

There's an additional Equipment double page of items from Truck Stop , ADQ , Autoduel Champions and perhaps Sunday Drivers - and Expansion Packs ? - on these like Universal Turrets, Ful's , Cupolas , Cyberlinks Both Reflective Armour (and LRFP) and IFE mentioned there . Both printings I believe ? I'm not at home (in hospital after a tumble) , and my AADA VG1 , 2nd Printing is missing this page , the index , several Cycles and late Arrivals . Or they are misplaced elsewhere . It was brought up as a number of people thought the Bastion Luxury would've done better with a IFE and Solid Tires - and this was before DCW came out . I know this as we discussed this a pupil at my boarding school who left in1984 before DCW came out , but had been there for the AADA VG1 and possibly VG1 Counters as well . I'll ask him , as he didn't get back into CW until look down .

[Magesmiley]

Originally Posted by Racer

There's an additional Equipment double page of items from Truck Stop , ADQ , Autoduel Champions and perhaps Sunday Drivers - and Expansion Packs ? - on these like Universal Turrets, Ful's , Cupolas , Cyberlinks Both Reflective Armour (and LRFP) and IFE mentioned there . Both printings I believe ? I'm not at home (in hospital after a tumble) , and my AADA VG1 , 2nd Printing is missing this page , the index , several Cycles and late Arrivals . Or they are misplaced elsewhere . It was brought up as a number of people thought the Bastion Luxury would've done better with a IFE and Solid Tires - and this was before DCW came out . I know this as we discussed this a pupil at my boarding school who left in1984 before DCW came out , but had been there for the AADA VG1 and possibly VG1 Counters as well . I'll ask him , as he didn't get back into CW until look down .

Again... to be clear... when you say Car Wars Classic, the term is generally applied to the small box set that is currently in print, which was a subset cherry-picked from the Compendium. Not the earlier edition of the game. And that's what the Combat Garage uses, the last that I checked. It has no correlation to the editions of the game (which I'd place the DCW as start of one of the major editions - 2nd IMO).

I want to say the IFE was originally in Autoduel Champions, but my book is buried, so I can't verify that. Likewise, I want to say LR armor originally appeared in a very early ADQ. I know that some issues of ADQ had "Late Arrivals" pages for the Vehicle Guides too, which may be where those originated from.

As to what was included in what design... remember that these weren't made by people who had nifty design wizard apps or even spreadsheets. They were made by flipping through books and using pieces of paper to add things up. And even if a person had a book with the gadget, it didn't mean that they thought of using it. There weren't online communities to share design insights too, just whomever you played against. Some people simply designed better than others and/or had opponents with particular tendencies.

Good design... well... any car higher than division 10 should always have an IFE in my book. 10 can usually get away with (or maybe live with) an FE, and 5 a PFE. IFE for everyone else. It's way too easy to lose to fire and the various fire extinguishers are really the only true counter-move. (You caught fire? Great. I drive away and wait for you to burn up.) Even cars with FP still could catch fire after breaches happened. And for road vehicles, nothing but an IFE made much sense. Despite that, even in later years, you still saw designs without them. Did it make sense? Not really. But there you are.

(If this comes across as exposing my opinion of how powerful fire is in the older editions... well you're right. Some moves you must have a counter for or you simply lose. Which you need consider when you approach good vehicle design.)

[43Supporter]

Originally Posted by Magesmiley

Good design... well... any car higher than division 10 should always have an IFE in my book. 10 can usually get away with (or maybe live with) an FE, and 5 a PFE. IFE for everyone else. It's way too easy to lose to fire and the various fire extinguishers are really the only true counter-move. (You caught fire? Great. I drive away and wait for you to burn up.) Even cars with FP still could catch fire after breaches happened. And for road vehicles, nothing but an IFE made much sense. Despite that, even in later years, you still saw designs without them. Did it make sense? Not really. But there you are.

And my experience says exactly the opposite: Fire is irrelevant, as [4-6]d6 volleys kill a target fast enough, fire has no time to have any meaningful effect.