Dagger by ST

[hcobb]

In this variant daggers in melee or as thrown weapons do one less point of damage than they do in HTH. So a thrown or melee dagger is 1d-2 at ST 8, 1d-1 at ST 9, 1d at ST 11, and so on. (Same for Cestus.)

[Shostak]

Have you a formula that yields damage by ST for all other weapons? Bows and clubs already are on this path.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Have you a formula that yields damage by ST for all other weapons? Bows and clubs already are on this path.

I'm curious about such a chart and bows. There are already bigger more powerful bows available as ST increases.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by Bill_in_IN

I'm curious about such a chart and bows. There are already bigger more powerful bows available as ST increases.

Right. That’s how bows work in real life; the “ST” is built into the bow. For example a small bow does 1d-1 at ST 9. A ST 10 character using that same bow can only ever put ST 9 into it, since that is the draw engineered into the bow*. So, that ST 10 character has a stronger bow made, and now does +1 damage. When he trains up to ST 11, he gets another bow made, this one built to have ST 11 and dealing even more damage due to its increased power. TFT calls them different species of bows ST, but there is no need to do so.

But swords, clubs, and pointed sticks are different. Different in that the ST powering the damage they deal is not built into the weapon. Instead, that is supplied by the person wielding the weapon. A weak person slashing with a short sword should deal less damage that a stronger person using the same blade.

*yes, I know that technically the archer is supplying the ST, but the bow has an upper limit on how much energy (ST) it can hold.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Right. That’s how bows work in real life; the “ST” is built into the bow. For example a small bow does 1d-1 at ST 9. A ST 10 character using that same bow can only ever put ST 9 into it, since that is the draw engineered into the bow*. So, that ST 10 character has a stronger bow made, and now does +1 damage. When he trains up to ST 11, he gets another bow made, this one built to have ST 11 and dealing even more damage due to its increased power. TFT calls them different species of bows ST, but there is no need to do so.

But swords, clubs, and pointed sticks are different. Different in that the ST powering the damage they deal is not built into the weapon. Instead, that is supplied by the person wielding the weapon. A weak person slashing with a short sword should deal less damage that a stronger person using the same blade.

*yes, I know that technically the archer is supplying the ST, but the bow has an upper limit on how much energy (ST) it can hold.

I concur.

If one is too weak to wield a sword or other weapon, it's effectively a club and can do that kind of damage if not too heavy for the character to even lift it.

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Have you a formula that yields damage by ST for all other weapons? Bows and clubs already are on this path.

I don't understand this statement. It seems to me we can divide weapons broadly into three categories:

• Weapons whose damage depends on ST: daggers in HTH, unarmed attacks, clubs, mauls
• Weapon families with fixed damage independent of ST for any particular weapon, though weapons exist with a range of ST requirements and damages: swords, bows, crossbows, axes, maces, pole weapons.
• Weapons with only one ST requirement and damage: All the peculiar weapons.

So I would put bows in the same category as swords, not the same category as clubs.

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

I don't understand this statement. It seems to me we can divide weapons broadly into three categories:

• Weapons whose damage depends on ST: daggers in HTH, unarmed attacks, clubs, mauls
• Weapon families with fixed damage independent of ST for any particular weapon, though weapons exist with a range of ST requirements and damages: swords, bows, crossbows, axes, maces, pole weapons.
• Weapons with only one ST requirement and damage: All the peculiar weapons.

So I would put bows in the same category as swords, not the same category as clubs.

Well, this being the house rules section, the idea is that we discard the standard damage on the weapons table and come up with one in which all weapons give a bonus to barehand damage the way clubs do and daggers in HTH.

[EKB]

Originally Posted by David Bofinger

I don't understand this statement. It seems to me we can divide weapons broadly into three categories:

• Weapons whose damage depends on ST: daggers in HTH, unarmed attacks, clubs, mauls
• Weapon families with fixed damage independent of ST for any particular weapon, though weapons exist with a range of ST requirements and damages: swords, bows, crossbows, axes, maces, pole weapons.
• Weapons with only one ST requirement and damage: All the peculiar weapons.

So I would put bows in the same category as swords, not the same category as clubs.

I use the following table for damage based on ST
ST 1-4 - 1d-5
ST 5-8 - 1d-4
ST 9-12 - 1d-3
ST 13-16 - 1d-2
ST 17-20 - 1d-1 (optional: ST 19-20 - 2d-4)
ST 21-28 - 2d-3
ST 29-45 - 2d-2
ST 46-57 - 3d-3
+12 ST - +(1d-1)

For melee and thrown weapons in the second and third categories, I use +1 damage for every +4 ST above the required minimum, with points of ST above ST 20 counting half and points above ST 30 counting one-third. It's usually better to use a weapon with an higher required ST if one is available.

[hcobb]

Note that the same club doesn't do more or less damage in other hands.
If you want your giant apprentice to do giant sized damage then she's gonna need a bigger stick.

ITL 109: Weight: 3 pounds and up.

[Bill_in_IN]

Originally Posted by hcobb

In this variant daggers in melee or as thrown weapons do one less point of damage than they do in HTH. So a thrown or melee dagger is 1d-2 at ST 8, 1d-1 at ST 9, 1d at ST 11, and so on. (Same for Cestus.)

It makes sense that the damage for a dagger and cestus would be linked to ST and Bare Hands Damage (BHD).

Per the Cestus discussion, in our Classic TFT days, we ruled that the cestus did +3 BHD in both Melee and HTH. Of course, the cestus isn't of the thrown weapon variety. However, the dagger is and linking its thrown damage to ST is also justifiable. I don't know if I would impose -1 damage while thrown but that can be discussed.