Survival skill FINDs terrain for Ambush; Tactics skill to best utilize it?

[thom]

So the PCs are helping out a rural group of hobbits being extorted by the Bad Guys. The baddies are returning in two nights for the payment-and they're sloppy. The PCs want to backtrack their path and set an ambush before the baddies hit the hamlet.

In breaking this down, I'm thinking they would use the Survival skill to locate the good/best general terrain to wait in along the baddies' previous path; and then make a Tactics roll to see if they can properly utilize/set up for the ambush. Does that seem reasonable to the group mind? Or any other suggestions? Thanks!

thom

[whswhs]

I don't see Survival as relevant. What is the best terrain for lying in wait seems to be a question of Tactics. I might allow Survival as a complementary skill.

As for properly setting up the ambush, at one level, I think that might be Camouflage, or maybe Stealth, to be concealed. At a higher level, it seems like Leadership. Though maybe the average Soldier skill of the force could be a complementary skill.

[thom]

Originally Posted by whswhs

I don't see Survival as relevant. What is the best terrain for lying in wait seems to be a question of Tactics. I might allow Survival as a complementary skill.

As for properly setting up the ambush, at one level, I think that might be Camouflage, or maybe Stealth, to be concealed. At a higher level, it seems like Leadership. Though maybe the average Soldier skill of the force could be a complementary skill.

Well, I was thinking that the PCs would follow the backtrail and, along the way, see what might be good terrain, and then have to make a Tactics roll. It seems a little incongruous (to me) to make a Tactics roll to "find" the best general terrain for an ambush. The hobbits have already volunteered to send their best to help the PCs conceal themselves when they set the ambush, so that's not a problem...

thom

P.S. To clarify, the baddies don't know about the PCs, the group arrived the day after the baddies first visited...

[Polydamas]

Originally Posted by thom

Well, I was thinking that the PCs would follow the backtrail and, along the way, see what might be good terrain, and then have to make a Tactics roll. It seems a little incongruous (to me) to make a Tactics roll to "find" the best general terrain for an ambush. The hobbits have already volunteered to send their best to help the PCs conceal themselves when they set the ambush, so that's not a problem...

"If the enemy appears there, what would you do?" is basic training for military commanders going back to at least Classical Greece and was never necessarily connected with training to survive in the wild with limited equipment (the closest thing to that was hunting). Plutarch mentions it in one of his lives.

I would also let Area Knowledge complement the Tactics roll to set up the ambush.

[whswhs]

Where following the trail is concerned, the applicable skill would seem to be Tracking.

[Donny Brook]

For finding a type of terrain by knowing where it will occur, I'd suggest Geography (Physical).

[Refplace]

Originally Posted by thom

Well, I was thinking that the PCs would follow the backtrail and, along the way, see what might be good terrain, and then have to make a Tactics roll. It seems a little incongruous (to me) to make a Tactics roll to "find" the best general terrain for an ambush. The hobbits have already volunteered to send their best to help the PCs conceal themselves when they set the ambush, so that's not a problem...

thom

P.S. To clarify, the baddies don't know about the PCs, the group arrived the day after the baddies first visited...

Tracking to follow the backtrail.
Survival, Geography, and Area Knowledge I would not let help here as the first is really irrelevant and the latter two would be more used to find good areas of possible ambush in an area. However your area is limited to the trail.
Tactics is going to be the best choice to figure out the best of the possible options for setting the ambush. Then Camouflage and Stealth to hide.
Survival might be useful to help if they could use the terrain or nearby animals to help the ambush, including making some traps like deadfalls or pit traps.
Survival might help in avoiding a bad spot for an ambush. Examples would be a dry river bed if a storm is incoming, where animals might alert people of your presence, etc. I could see Survival as a safety in the first case and a complimentary to camouflage in the latter.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Refplace

Tracking to follow the backtrail.
Survival, Geography, and Area Knowledge I would not let help here as the first is really irrelevant and the latter two would be more used to find good areas of possible ambush in an area. However your area is limited to the trail.
Tactics is going to be the best choice to figure out the best of the possible options for setting the ambush. Then Camouflage and Stealth to hide.
Survival might be useful to help if they could use the terrain or nearby animals to help the ambush, including making some traps like deadfalls or pit traps.
Survival might help in avoiding a bad spot for an ambush. Examples would be a dry river bed if a storm is incoming, where animals might alert people of your presence, etc. I could see Survival as a safety in the first case and a complimentary to camouflage in the latter.

I would absolutely allow Area Knowledge or Naturalist (or Survival) act as complimentary skills to the Tactics check. Some parts of the trail will be better than others for an ambush, and while that's mostly tactics, knowing the area, or having a good eye for the ground helps.

[Pursuivant]

I'll add to the chorus saying that Survival isn't particularly relevant, unless the GM decides otherwise.

Survival might be handy for noticing less than obvious problems with an otherwise good ambush site, like stinging nettles or nests of stinging ants. It might also be good for keeping the ambushers warm and dry (or whatever) as they lurk or for making sure that the party doesn't make stupid mistakes if they have to set up camp along the way.

It might also allow the group to do things like keep their fires from being obvious if they have to camp near the ambush site.

It's just barely relevant if the enemy is having to make Survival rolls of their own, since it might give insights about what the bad guys are doing or how they have to travel.

I'll second use of Naturalist as a potential "fieldcraft" skill. In particular, it lets you make little observations about the overall natural environment which can give useful insights.
At the very least, it allows you to notice animal behavior which might indicate otherwise undetected human activity, like warning cries or flight.

It's definitely complementary to Tracking skill. Tracking skill will tell you what animal made the tracks your following and when, but except for obvious tracks (e.g., lame horse, horse with distinctive shoes) Naturalist is the skill of determining why an animal behaved as it did.