Evil Faerie vs Evil Demon

[b-dog]

I was thinking that a useful way to differentiate evil faerie from demons is that faeries are so chaotic and magical that they can not be truly evil and so protection from evil does not function well against them. Also weapons that give bonus attacks against evil creatures don’t do so against evil faeries. This way evil faeries can be used as shock troops against the forces of good while the demonic forces attack the weakened forces of good. Faerie would have vulnerabilities to protection from magic and weapons that affect magical creatures so the forces of good would have to have two different types of weapons.

[Rhino]

In my campaign setting faeries are not capital E Evil, even if some are almost always really nasty and lower case e evil. Capital E Evil is reserved for demons, devils, undead, etc., but not faeries.

[mlangsdorf]

I'm with Rhino: faeries in my game aren't capital E evil, nor are they capital G good. So the question of how to differentiate them doesn't come up.

My rough taxonomy is:
* Fae in general: magic dependent beings, mostly from the mundane dimension though they may have some ways to travel other dimensions.
* Unseelie Fae: Fae that don't appear to be human on a glance, such as leprechauns, pixies, or satyrs. Can be nice or mean, depending on the story.
* Seelie Fae: Fae that appear to be human on a glance, such as nymphs. Can be mean or nice, depending on the story.
* Summer Fae: Seelie or Unseelie Fae who adhere to the principles of Summer: growth, expansion, unchecked whimsy without concerns for the future. Can be cruel or generous, depending on the circumstances.
* Winter Fae: Seelie or Unseelie Fae who adhere to the principles of Winter: austerity, retrenchment, calculated actions in an uncertain future. Can be generous or cruel, depending on the circumstances.
* Demons: Evil supernatural entities from another dimension. Demons never look even vaguely humanoid. Demons want to destroy everything except the actual dimensions.
* Devils: Evil supernatural entities from another dimension. Devils always look vaguely humanoid, but might have wings, horns, claws, and such. Devils want to conquer all the dimensions and rule over all their inhabitants. Devils are classed as Demons for spell effects and Hidden Lore.
* Elder Things: Supernatural entities from beyond reality with a variety of appearances. Elder Things have inscrutable goals and objectives, but their mere presence can destabilize reality.

Summer and Winter Fae sometimes have a low-grade civil war within the general faction of Nature, and either might work as mercenaries for Demons or Devils. Demons and Devils are generally opposed to each other and to the Fae, but might employ mercenaries or contrive temporary alliances, though Demons generally don't bother. Everyone is opposed to Elder Things, but Demons sometimes try to use Elder Things.

Though honestly, from the perspective of the PCs, it rarely comes up. Fae Queen Farys might be a Seelie Winter Fae who would murder Te'Peh'Quai the Elder Thing if she ever got the chance, but since the PCs are currently looting Farys' castle, she's going to murder them first and they're not going to summon Te'Peh'Quai as a distraction.

[b-dog]

I guess some people do agree with me that faeries are able to be evil but capital E Evil. The idea I have is that evil temples and other evil places would not only draw demons and undead to them but also attract evil faeries. The evil faeries would be drawn toward an evil temple and likely use it as their lair if possible. The evil faerie would not have the detects as evil disadvantage and also vulnerability to items that do extra damage to truly evil beings. The PCs would instead have to use weapons and detection methods that affect faeries.

[Mr_Sandman]

I like to think of ‘bad’ faeries as wicked, rather than evil. There are faeries that are more pleasant, and can even be helpful at times when it suits their purposes, but none of them are really good. They are unconcerned with human morality. I certainly could see wicked faeries being attracted to an evil temple and allying with capital E Evil beings, again if it results in advancing their own agenda.

I suppose the difference in my mind is that that Evil beings are by definition on Team Evil. Faeries are not on anyone’s team but their own.

[martinl]

Fairies are clearly Bunny, not Evil, but in most of my games morality is only loosely correlated with the associated supernatural power source.

[benz72]

Originally Posted by b-dog

I guess some people do agree with me that faeries are able to be evil but capital E Evil. The idea I have is that evil temples and other evil places would not only draw demons and undead to them but also attract evil faeries. The evil faeries would be drawn toward an evil temple and likely use it as their lair if possible. The evil faerie would not have the detects as evil disadvantage and also vulnerability to items that do extra damage to truly evil beings. The PCs would instead have to use weapons and detection methods that affect faeries.

There are plenty of reasons for things that are not Evil to be drawn to Evil temples. They might be there to negotiate, or learn, or eradicate, or capture, or... If you need Fae in an Evil temple for some plot reason, they can certainly be there for motivations other than their own Evilness.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

I'm with Rhino: faeries in my game aren't capital E evil, nor are they capital G good. So the question of how to differentiate them doesn't come up.

My rough taxonomy is:
* Fae in general: magic dependent beings, mostly from the mundane dimension though they may have some ways to travel other dimensions.


* Elder Things: Supernatural entities from beyond reality with a variety of appearances. Elder Things have inscrutable goals and objectives, but their mere presence can destabilize reality.

My concept of fae is that they live in a land made from dreams and possibilities. They live in a faerie realm that often intersects with mundane reality.

The Elder Things in my concept are entirely mundane. They live in the real world in space or deep below the ocean or the earth. When the gods created to world, they created it out of raw chaos and that raw chaos was transformed into reality but it is just a veneer. Underneath the veneer or reality lurks horrors far older than the gods and the heavens and earth. The Divine and the Infernal both have purposes and reasons for existence. They also create purpose for their creations, the PCs. Even nature is not really the true nature of reality, it is instead the result of the way that chaos was formed into reality by the gods. The true nature of reality is chaos and meaninglessness and this is where the Elder Things live. The Elder Things can break through the veneer of creation when the stars are right or when proper rituals are done. Sometimes there are weak points in the veneer of creation where Elder Things can peak through to see the mortal realm. An Elder Thing can exist in the same spot as a PC but neither knows of the other due to being out of phase. Unfortunately, demons and Infernal beings often start to degrade the veneer that keeps reality separate from chaos. They do this because demons are beings that oppose the gods and their creation and they corrupt and degrade it. Thus, Elder Things often lurk in demonic temples, graveyards with undead and also other places of evil due to the weakening of the veneer. The chaos of Elder Things is just below the surface of creation.

[mlangsdorf]

Elder Things are explicitly extradimensional creatures (DF2 Dungons p 21). Faeries are implicitly not extradimensional creatures (ibid). DFRPG is more explicit on Monsters p 14, specifying that Elder Things are not living things.

It's your game and you can do what you want at your table, but mundane Elder Things is a significant change from the DF and DFRPG rules. Fae being from the dream realm is a clever take, but it's also a change if Fae can be Banished by the spell.

[b-dog]

Originally Posted by mlangsdorf

Elder Things are explicitly extradimensional creatures (DF2 Dungons p 21). Faeries are implicitly not extradimensional creatures (ibid). DFRPG is more explicit on Monsters p 14, specifying that Elder Things are not living things.

It's your game and you can do what you want at your table, but mundane Elder Things is a significant change from the DF and DFRPG rules. Fae being from the dream realm is a clever take, but it's also a change if Fae can be Banished by the spell.

The Elder Things in my game are Extradimensional but tied to mundane reality. When the Divine created the universe out of the primordial chaos, they shunted the Elder Things into other dimensions of the universe which overlay the mundane universe. So the Elder Things are basically in the mundane universe, just out of phase with it unless the stars are right. The heavens, hells and faerie realms are separate planes though.