Odd Question in raising IQ.

[Ughbash]

Assuming a character has an IQ of 18, with a perception of 20?

Is it 20 points thus putting IQ at 19 and Perception at 21?
Is it 15 points putting IQ at 19, perception staying at 20?
Or is it 20 points putting IQ at 20 leaving perception at 20 and the character is out 5 points for not planning better?

[Armin]

It's the first one, generally. It's the second one if that's how your group/GM plays/allows. It should never be the last one.

[Varyon]

By default, +1 IQ - regardless of the source of it - also comes with a +1 to Per and a +1 to Will. Note this is the same for other attributes - +1 ST also comes with +1 HP, +1 DX or +1 HT comes with a +0.25 to Basic Speed (which also functionally comes with a +0.25 to Basic Move, although you generally round that down), and +1 HT comes with +1 FP. Some GM's divorce IQ from Per and Will while leaving the prices the same; others will allow purchase of what's often referred to as "IQ!" which is a metatrait consisting of +1 IQ [20], -1 Per [-5], and -1 Will [-5], for a net change of +1 to IQ, +0 to each of Per and Will, and a net cost of [10]. But those are houserules; the RAW is that, while you can buy Per and Will up or down from IQ, the three are linked, regardless of when you purchase them.

[Ughbash]

Normally yes, and I would tend to run it as option 1.

Only reason it came up is due to the line about perception in the basic book.

"By default, Per equals IQ, but you can increase it for 5 points per +1, or reduce it for -5 points per -1. You cannot raise Per past 20, or lower it by more than 4, without GM permission." (Basic page 16).

This seems to hard cap perception at 20...

[Varyon]

Originally Posted by Ughbash

Normally yes, and I would tend to run it as option 1.

Only reason it came up is due to the line about perception in the basic book.

"By default, Per equals IQ, but you can increase it for 5 points per +1, or reduce it for -5 points per -1. You cannot raise Per past 20, or lower it by more than 4, without GM permission." (Basic page 16).

This seems to hard cap perception at 20...

Oh, in that case, if the GM is enforcing that cap, you would indeed only pay [15] for +1 IQ, because it would only give +1 to IQ and Will, not to Per. Essentially you're "trading in" some of what you spent on Per to raise IQ (and Will) for a bit cheaper - instead of having +8 IQ [160] and +2 Per [10], you now have +9 IQ [180] and +1 Per [5].

[David Johnston2]

Originally Posted by Ughbash

Normally yes, and I would tend to run it as option 1.

Only reason it came up is due to the line about perception in the basic book.

"By default, Per equals IQ, but you can increase it for 5 points per +1, or reduce it for -5 points per -1. You cannot raise Per past 20, or lower it by more than 4, without GM permission." (Basic page 16).

This seems to hard cap perception at 20...

That's specifically a rule about buying up perception. IQ is much more expensive and loses a bit of functionality once you buy it up over 20.

[Plane]

Originally Posted by Varyon

others will allow purchase of what's often referred to as "IQ!" which is a metatrait consisting of +1 IQ [20], -1 Per [-5], and -1 Will [-5], for a net change of +1 to IQ, +0 to each of Per and Will, and a net cost of [10]. But those are houserules

Yeah I'd allow a bonus point of Per or Will (or both) to be sacrificed to buy IQ at 15 (or 10) points.

Surprised it's not even a base rule to allow this.

Same thing for sacrificing bonus HP or Lifting ST or Striking ST to get a discount on baseline ST purchases.

[Arcanjo7Sagi]

Originally Posted by Plane

Same thing for sacrificing bonus HP or Lifting ST or Striking ST to get a discount on baseline ST purchases.

You can actually do this. At least the HP thing.

It's even an option mentioned in Psonics. There you can buy ST without HP. In the specific case there, it goes with a -10% limitation on top of being psionic, but it is presumed that outside of that, you could buy it without a problem.

But yes, for me it should be better written or have certain parts rewritten to be able to better level up each separate aspect.

[mburr0003]

Originally Posted by Plane

Yeah I'd allow a bonus point of Per or Will (or both) to be sacrificed to buy IQ at 15 (or 10) points.

Surprised it's not even a base rule to allow this.

Same thing for sacrificing bonus HP or Lifting ST or Striking ST to get a discount on baseline ST purchases.

Personally I almost agree with ST or HT, as there are almost no skills associated with them, reducing their cost at the expense of HP/FP isn't as big a deal.

But for IQ or DX? Ah, no way I'd agree with it. Makes them too valuable to boost for skill increasing purposes. As it is I'm still contemplating raising IQ to 40 points per with Per and Will stripped out. But there are other ways to "
solve" my 'high IQ is a problem' problem, so it's still just at the weighing options stage.

[Arcanjo7Sagi]

Originally Posted by mburr0003

But there are other ways to "
solve" my 'high IQ is a problem' problem, so it's still just at the weighing options stage.

If you don't want high IQ characters, just don't allow them. It's simpler than setting prohibitive or punitive prices for other types of players. Most of the games I played had initial and maximum stat caps during the game. It's even a solution suggested by How To be a GURPS GM. It's not because the player has points and XP that he can buy everything until infinity. It's not how it normally works, save for maybe some Supers games.