Got the bug to build a supersonic transport airliner.

[Dave_67]

While continuing to work on my Dixie-7 world, I found myself wanting to go down another rabbit hole and work on putting together an SST airliner - ala the Concorde, Tupolev Tu-144, Boeing 2702, or Lockheed L-2000 - for the DC-25 stratoliner in Dixie-1. However, I'm waffling on HOW to build it.

I've looked around the forums, but haven't found anyone else who has put one together with GURPS Vehicles - or maybe someone has, but has not bothered posting the specs here. I'm thinking the following:

-STOL wings
-Superior or Excellent streamlining with a lifting body
-4 turbo-ramjet engines

Thoughts?

[Pursuivant]

Assuming that you just wanted GURPS 4E stats:

https://gurps.fandom.com/wiki/Vehicl...assenger_Plane

I haven't found any GURPS 3E Vehicles-type stats, however, so I can't help with the design process.

A fictional SST might come close enough to being a spaceship that you could use GURPS Spaceship design rules. Eric B. Smith has done lots of good work using this system to design non-space craft. Examples are included in the Spaceship Design Spreadsheet.

[Dave_67]

Originally Posted by Pursuivant

Assuming that you just wanted GURPS 4E stats:

https://gurps.fandom.com/wiki/Vehicl...assenger_Plane

Thanks for the link. Mind you, I feel that those stats for the Concorde seem WAY off, even when compared to the 747-400. I think that if I ever do get around to playing with the numbers I'll stick with what I thought about. (I've been sticking with 3e rules for the time being.)

[johndallman]

Originally Posted by Dave_67

Mind you, I feel that those stats for the Concorde seem WAY off . . .

They are. It's a lot faster, heavier, and larger that that, carried more than 21 passengers, has much more range . . . those aren't stats for a Concorde at all. You can do better with the stats from Wikipedia.

[Dave_67]

Originally Posted by johndallman

They are. It's a lot faster, heavier, and larger that that, carried more than 21 passengers, has much more range . . . those aren't stats for a Concorde at all. You can do better with the stats from Wikipedia.

I often use Wikipedia as my initial data source, then if I can I will try and find other sites, including official airline sites if possible, to cross-check data.

[Fred Brackin]

If you do use Ve2 to make a Concorde you'll have to be up on the afterburners rules. Concorde used 1960s (TL7) fighter jet engines with the afterburners running all the way. If you calculate fuel use that way you'll probably get a ridiculous number but Concorde really did carry that much fuel. That's why it went out of business.

I remember you had said something about turbo-ramjets and that might get around the afterburner problem though the SR-71 gulped fuel too. TL8 technologies generally might be necessary to make this thing more sensible.

I'm not sure about STOL wings with a Lifting Body. It makes an odd picture in my mind's eye. It might not be necessary anyway. Ve2 loves lifting bodies.

[Sam Baughn]

Originally Posted by Dave_67

I feel that those stats for the Concorde seem WAY off

They are way off because whoever transcribed them to the wiki used the stats for the Douglas DC-3 from the vehicle collection, not the Concorde. Check the actual PDF for more accurate numbers.

[Dave_67]

Originally Posted by Sam Baughn

They are way off because whoever transcribed them to the wiki used the stats for the Douglas DC-3 from the vehicle collection, not the Concorde. Check the actual PDF for more accurate numbers.

Oh yeah, those seem more accurate.

[Rupert]

Originally Posted by Dave_67

While continuing to work on my Dixie-7 world, I found myself wanting to go down another rabbit hole and work on putting together an SST airliner - ala the Concorde, Tupolev Tu-144, Boeing 2702, or Lockheed L-2000 - for the DC-25 stratoliner in Dixie-1. However, I'm waffling on HOW to build it.

I've looked around the forums, but haven't found anyone else who has put one together with GURPS Vehicles - or maybe someone has, but has not bothered posting the specs here. I'm thinking the following:

-STOL wings
-Superior or Excellent streamlining with a lifting body
-4 turbo-ramjet engines

Thoughts?

On the GURPSnet mailing list, Onoo Mayer has been doing VE2 'Vehicle of the Week' for ages, and apparently did a military SST at some point, but I couldn't find it. However, he kindly did up one that's basically the Concorde.

Originally Posted by Onno Mayer

Supersonic Transport (Western Model) v1.0 (Early TL7)
Copyright 2018 by Onno Meyer

The Supersonic Transport (SST) was an optimistic design from an
optimistic time. Many orders were cancelled before it entered service,
reflecting high costs and operational challenges like the sonic boom.
The aircraft has a cockpit with seats for two pilots, one engineer,
and two extras. Next come the entry/galley area, the first part of the
passenger cabin, another galley area, the second part of the passenger
cabin, and finally another crew area with the aft luggage hold. There
are 108 passenger seats in a typical configuration.
The engines burn 11,160 gallons of jet fuel per hour at 1,210 mph. A
full load of fuel is $94,500.

Subassemblies: Body +7, ten Retractable Wheels +2, two Wings +5, two
Pods +3.
Powertrain: Four 31,000-lbs. afterburning turbojets; 3,000-kWs lead-acid
batteries.
Fuel: 31,500 gallons jet fuel (fire on 13).
Occ: 4 RCS, 6 folding NS, 108 NS (all with superior access).
Cargo: 600 cf.

Armor F RL B T U
All: 3/8 3/8 3/8 3/8 3/8

Equipment:
Body: Two very-long-range radios; 20-mile air search radar, no
targeting; two flight recorders; two sets of precision navigation
instruments; two transponders; three inertial navigation systems; two
autopilots; two full fire suppression systems; six small galleys; three
roomy toilets with superior access; 154x6 man-hour limited life system.

Statistics
Size: 202'x84'x40' Payload: 231,350 lbs. Lwt.: 409,120 lbs.
Volume: 19,159.4 cf Maint.: 32 man-hours Price: $45,481,175

HT: 11. HPs: 12,000 Body, 300 each Wheel, 5,400 each Wing, 750 each
Pod.

gSpeed: 265 gAccel: 15 gDecel: 10 gMR: 0.25 gSR: 5
Ground Pressure Extremely High. No Off-Road Speed.

aSpeed: 1,855 aAccel: 9 aDecel: 22 aMR: 5.5 aSR: 6
Stall Speed 170. Ceiling 19,100 yards (aerodynamic limit).

Design Notes
The nominal performance assumes sustained use of the afterburner. It
was intended for periods of climb and acceleration only, reducing top
speed to 1,515 mph. The statistics are calculated with 3,000 lbs. of
cargo in addition to cabin luggage.
Body is 13,932 cf, with excellent streamlining. Wheels are 696.6 cf,
retract into Body. Wings are 2,400 cf each. Pods are 213.7 cf each.
Structure is heavy, standard. Armor is standard metal. Sealed.
Electronic controls with duplicate maneuver controls. 594.1 cf of empty
space in the Body and 263 cf in each Wing. Empty weight is 177,770 lbs.
The vehicle uses the design rules from Vehicles [second edition, third
printing, July 2010 errata], VXi, and VXii (including the armor volume,
stall speed, and ceiling rules) with the text format from Vehicles Lite.

[Dave_67]

Originally Posted by Rupert

On the GURPSnet mailing list, Onoo Mayer has been doing VE2 'Vehicle of the Week' for ages, and apparently did a military SST at some point, but I couldn't find it. However, he kindly did up one that's basically the Concorde.

THANK YOU! This seems to be a good starting point to plug in the numbers from.