Injuries, Firearms, Shock and Major Wounds

[Pimpão]

Say a character makes a single attack with a pistol, shoots 3 times and hits two shots in an NPC that has 10 HP. The penetrating damage is 4 for the first shot and 3 for the second one, both in the torso. The NPC is now at 3 HP. Questions:

1. Is this a single injury and thus a Major Wound? It's two shots, but just one attack - one source.

2. What's the shock penalty for the NPC? -3 or -4? Do I consider the highest of them or should I sum the results (and in this case apply the max penalty of -4)?
2.1 If penetrating damage were 2 and 1, the shock penalty would be -3, -2 or -1?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Pimpão

1. Is this a single injury and thus a Major Wound? It's two shots, but just one attack - one source.

No, it's two injuries. You went through the injury-resolution process twice.

Originally Posted by Pimpão

2. What's the shock penalty for the NPC? -3 or -4? Do I consider the highest of them or should I sum the results (and in this case apply the max penalty of -4)?
2.1 If penetrating damage were 2 and 1, the shock penalty would be -3, -2 or -1?

I think you composed your question wrong, since the only way the answer to 2 could be "-3" is if the second smaller injury overwrote the shock from the first injury. Which is obviously incorrect.

To 2.1, see this: "Shock: -HP of injury received last turn" (Campaigns 547).

You could reasonably look at that from a slightly different angle as the shock from multiple injuries adding together (but the cap applies to the total, not to each individual contribution).

[Pimpão]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

To 2.1, see this: "Shock: -HP of injury received last turn" (Campaigns 547).

Yeah, that's my main question here: what constitutes an injury in this case? Each individual resolution? The sum of resolutions from the same attack? Or is it the highest of them?

My guess would be -3, the sum of both. As it is loss the character suffered before his turn.
If he had suffered yet more damage from another source before his turn, this character would suffer a shock penalty of -4. Right?

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Pimpão

Yeah, that's my main question here: what constitutes an injury in this case? Each individual resolution? The sum of resolutions from the same attack? Or is it the highest of them?

My guess would be -3, the sum of both. As it is loss the character suffered before his turn.
If he had suffered yet more damage from another source before his turn, this character would suffer a shock penalty of -4. Right?

That's what I think. Fred disagrees though, and I failed a quick text search to find anything definitive one way or the other.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Pimpão

If he had suffered yet more damage from another source before his turn, this character would suffer a shock penalty of -4. Right?

What's the difference between being shot twice by one person or once each by 2 people. My interpretation is that injuries add for shock calculation.


From campaigns page 419...

• Whenever you suffer injury, reduce your DX and IQ by the number of HP you lost – to a maximum penalty of -4, regardless of your injuries – on your next turn only.

In your second scenario, the first shot imposes a -2 penalty and the second shot increases the penalty to -3. Note that it says, "...regardless of your injuries...".

You're the GM though so whatever way you want to do it is the right way.

[Ulzgoroth]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

Note that it says, "...regardless of your injuries...".

Within the clause that specifies the -4 limit on shock, so it has no relevance elsewhere...

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by Ulzgoroth

Within the clause that specifies the -4 limit on shock, so it has no relevance elsewhere...

"Whenever you suffer injury..." (emphasis added)

There were 2 injuries.

"...regardless of your injuries..."

So, multiple injuries are included in the -4.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Pimpão

Yeah, that's my main question here: what constitutes an injury in this case? E

In this case it's the result of _a_ bullet. This is an area where Gurps is much more simulationist than gamist. Your vocabulary seems more gamist but Gurps tends towards the literal in combat. You roll however many dice it says to when a bullet hits and that's one wound.

[Fred Brackin]

Originally Posted by Pimpão

Say a character makes a single attack with a pistol, shoots 3 times and hits two shots in an NPC that has 10 HP. The penetrating damage is 4 for the first shot and 3 for the second one, both in the torso. The NPC is now at 3 HP. Questions:
?

The character has taken a single Attack Action but has scored 2 hits resulting in 2 separate injuries. The Shock Penalty will be -4 because that was the larger injury. If te largest injury had been 2 pts then the shock Penalty would be -2. There is no Major Wound.

You never add 2 injuries together to get Shock penalties or to get a Major wound.

Note that if the npc had only 10 HP (which seems to be the case) he is now below 1/3rd of his starting HP and is reeling from his wounds so he is at half Move and Dodge.

[Varyon]

I've always thought of Shock penalties as stacking, up to the maximum of -4, but reading B381 and the FAQ entry, that's not immediately obvious. I feel the GURPS authors would have specifically stated something like "if you take multiple hits in a round, apply only the highest penalty" if it were intended they shouldn't stack, but I could well be wrong on that. If you want to know the intent, I think your only option is to ask Kromm directly (or find a thread where he gave a response). Failing that, you'll need to simply make a call as GM as to what makes the most sense to you - if someone takes a moderate hit for 30% of their HP and a weak hit for 10% of their HP, are they as debilitated by the pain as someone who took a single 40% HP hit, or does the pain of the 30% hit basically completely overwhelm the pain of the 10%, making the latter largely unfelt?