Orcs in Legacy

[madhopper50]

A question about Orcs. In Legacy Orcs are close to humans, in Middle Earth they started from evil Elves, Urak-Hai Orcs were Orc-Goblin breeds. So, should starting attributes be changed to reflect Middle Eart Orcs?

[hcobb]

Our orcs are different and we love them for it. (Our elves, goblins, etc. are also different.)

[TippetsTX]

Originally Posted by hcobb

Our orcs are different and we love them for it. (Our elves, goblins, etc. are also different.)

I don't think TFT orcs are different enough, TBH. Their distinguishing characteristic is being "quarrelsome" which isn't enough to base a whole race on.

I actually prefer John's idea to use the Wendol as a template for a "nastier" human culture, but I can't call them orcs.

[hcobb]

I have tried my hand at an orc society. (Based of course on the French)

https://www.hcobb.com/tft/The_Humongous_Fungus_Trip.pdf

[David Bofinger]

Originally Posted by TippetsTX

I don't think TFT orcs are different enough, TBH. Their distinguishing characteristic is being "quarrelsome" which isn't enough to base a whole race on.

Agreed. I've toyed with orcs being ST 9 DX 8 IQ 7 + 8, negatives to reactions, negatives to resisting various mind control magics (hence commonly used as Dark Lord cannon fodder), positives perhaps to resisting diseases and what have you, superior dark vision but nothing magical. But there needs to be a better reason for taking them than "I want a 25 point Melee character" and I don't know how to do that.

[Steve Plambeck]

I also don't think of TFT orcs as being very distinct, and have always preferred using Goblins anyway, although mine are a little bigger and stronger than the classic TFT goblins, without being as dumb as the hobgoblins. I also prefer them quicker, with a minimum MA of 11 and a maximum of 13. If they are aware you're in one of their tunnel systems, they will catch up with you if they want to before you get out.

While I designed a social system for mine as well, the greatest distinction they always had when we played back in the day was that were truly a nocturnal species, which actually is rather in keeping with Tolkien. Consequently they never got picked as PCs, though we never had a rule against it. Besides the fact the other PCs all disliked/feared/hated Goblins, who'd want to be the one PC in the party on a different sleep cycle than everyone else?

And with being nocturnal, they came with (what we called) Night Vision. It was the opposite of Day Vision. A Goblin saw as well in total darkness as anyone with Day Vision saw in full sunlight. We had a whole 5 level lighting scale that went from one extreme to the other, with Gloom/Overcast being the middle at which both diurnal and nocturnal races had an equal -1 DX penalty. Any darker would favor Goblins over Humans, and brighter would favor Humans over Goblins.

You never encounter one of our Goblins outdoors on a sunny day, because they'd be at -5 DX besides being in pain. But travel by night, and the tides would turn.

[hcobb]

What's the game effect of the fangs and claws of the orc?
Say always uses the dirty fighting bonus when they use brawling?

[Shostak]

Goblins and orcs are synonymous in Tolkein’s works.

I don’t use orcs in my games for the same reason that I don’t use halflings, elves, and dwarves: I want a game world more distinct from Middle Earth.

That said, if I were to play in Middle Earth, I’d model normal orcs on TFT goblins and Uruk-hai on TFT orcs, since my impression is that Uruk-hai were bred to be as large and as strong as a Men while normal orcs were most dangerous in numbers. This is a bit of an oversimplification—Tolkein’s orcs were far more capable than the Jackson films (especially The Hobbit) would have one believe.

[madhopper50]

Originally Posted by Shostak

Goblins and orcs are synonymous in Tolkein’s works.

I don’t use orcs in my games for the same reason that I don’t use halflings, elves, and dwarves: I want a game world more distinct from Middle Earth.

That said, if I were to play in Middle Earth, I’d model normal orcs on TFT goblins and Uruk-hai on TFT orcs, since my impression is that Uruk-hai were bred to be as large and as strong as a Men while normal orcs were most dangerous in numbers. This is a bit of an oversimplification—Tolkein’s orcs were far more capable than the Jackson films (especially The Hobbit) would have one believe.

Thanks! I like your take on Middle Earth. So, in your games, only humans and no fantasy characters?

[Shostak]

Originally Posted by madhopper50

Thanks! I like your take on Middle Earth. So, in your games, only humans and no fantasy characters?

Yes, in the game world I am currently using for TFT campaigns, only human PCs are allowed. There are, however, plenty of monsters and entities beyond the ken of humankind. It's a bit more like the world of Howard's Hyborean Age than it is Tolkein's Middle Earth, though magic is considerably less hidden than it is in either of those.