32 point wizard vs 1st Level D&D Wizard

[pzmcgwire]

Back in the days of yore, it was clear a 32 point Wizard would easily outclass a level 1 AD&D wizard which had only 1 spell a day.

In 5th edition, a level 1 wizard has 3 cantrips (lesser spells) that can be used without limit, and 2 spell slots for the 6 possible spells in their starting spell book.

A little bit more evenly matched between the starting character types now, but it seems that high level magic users in D&D will greatly outclass high level TFT wizards.

[hcobb]

High level D&D wizards will have vastly more "hit points" than a very experienced TFT wizard, but will lack the dozen apprentices that know the Aid spell.

Here's my notes on character conversions: https://www.hcobb.com/tft/SRD_TFT.html

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

High level D&D wizards will have vastly more "hit points" than a very experienced TFT wizard, but will lack the dozen apprentices that know the Aid spell.

Here's my notes on character conversions: https://www.hcobb.com/tft/SRD_TFT.html

Are you talking about PC wizards? Do you honestly anticipate PCs carrying around a dozen apprentices on an adventure?

I'm assuming that pzmcgwire is speaking about the powers of adventuring wizards, not those who earn a buck making enchanted weapons, creating gates, etc. Such wizards may well have several apprentices, but if they adventure, I'll bet they leave (almost all of) them at home.

[Axly Suregrip]

Originally Posted by phiwum

Are you talking about PC wizards? Do you honestly anticipate PCs carrying around a dozen apprentices on an adventure?

I'm assuming that pzmcgwire is speaking about the powers of adventuring wizards, not those who earn a buck making enchanted weapons, creating gates, etc. Such wizards may well have several apprentices, but if they adventure, I'll bet they leave (almost all of) them at home.

Although, not a bad idea to hire an apprentice for only $25/week to be your ST battery while on an adventure. I wonder if the guild has anything against that. Cheaper than hiring a merc wizard at $75/week.

"Young man, I will teach you the ways of magic. Follow me closely and give me Aid when I call for it. BTW, if you find yourself in danger, remember I am only hiring you as an apprentice, not a mercenary. So, it is completely voluntary if you wish to defend yourself."

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by Axly Suregrip

Although, not a bad idea to hire an apprentice for only $25/week to be your ST battery while on an adventure.

ITL 57: "have already been subtracted from these “salaries.”"
ITL 64: "and double that pay"

Assuming that in the group of Snow Heart's seven dwarven apprentices at least one knows of each of Light, Meal, and Stalwart, (or you take along a book with same, so that cost of living is zero or at most a change of robes twice a year), that's $350/week to hire the group.

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

ITL 57: "have already been subtracted from these “salaries.”"
ITL 64: "and double that pay"

Assuming that in the group of Snow Heart's seven dwarven apprentices at least one knows of each of Light, Meal, and Stalwart, (or you take along a book with same, so that cost of living is zero or at most a change of robes twice a year), that's $350/week to hire the group.

So, not so common to take a slew of apprentices on your adventure?

I mean, I feel like I've recently overdone the treasure rather a bit, but I don't think my players are planning to pay $350 for a bunch of apprentices. I'm also not sure that dragging along seven extra characters (which I honestly probably wouldn't let them do) is conducive to most of their battle plans.

But, of course, different games are different. So far, my players have not hired a single apprentice, but maybe they're just thick.

[Hrothgar Rannúlfr]

Originally Posted by pzmcgwire

Back in the days of yore, it was clear a 32 point Wizard would easily outclass a level 1 AD&D wizard which had only 1 spell a day.

In 5th edition, a level 1 wizard has 3 cantrips (lesser spells) that can be used without limit, and 2 spell slots for the 6 possible spells in their starting spell book.

A little bit more evenly matched between the starting character types now, but it seems that high level magic users in D&D will greatly outclass high level TFT wizards.

To me, the magic systems are so different as to make meaningful comparisons difficult, especially if one accepts the idea that the nature of the world governs what sort of magic will even function.

For example, in my own rpg multiverse, TFT magic wouldn't work in a DnD world and DnD magic wouldn't work in a TFT world.

For warriors, I've generally settled on the idea that a 1st level DnD Fighter is a 32 point TFT Warrior and each DnD level is worth about 2 TFT attribute points. Though I could see an argument for making a 1st level DnD character equivalent to a higher attribute point total in TFT, depending upon what edition of DnD is under consideration. Likewise with the attribute value of each additional DnD level.

I don't think it matters all that much unless trying to do a faithful conversion from one system to the other. But, even then, I prefer to go more by feel than a more scientific conversion.

[hcobb]

TFT wizards need to be compared against the creatures in their own setting.

How much XP does a TFT wizard need to curbstomp a fully adult dragon of seven-hex size?

[phiwum]

Originally Posted by hcobb

TFT wizards need to be compared against the creatures in their own setting.

How much XP does a TFT wizard need to curbstomp a fully adult dragon of seven-hex size?

I don't think a single wizard will be curbstomping a dragon with any reasonable amount of XP. Do you have some sort of curbstomping wizard design in mind?

(he asks cautiously and with some premature regret already...)

[hcobb]

Originally Posted by phiwum

I don't think a single wizard will be curbstomping a dragon with any reasonable amount of XP. Do you have some sort of curbstomping wizard design in mind?

(he asks cautiously and with some premature regret already...)

What's the ground rules here? Is Gate + Calling + vivisection chamber off the menu?