Question about character attribute totals and break downs among PCs?

Bill_in_IN · 03-19-2022, 11:25 AM

With the new TFT Legacy system being fairly young (<4years), I am curious about the general break down of attribute totals of playing characters. The numbers for which I'm asking need not be exact. Rough estimates are enough for this conversation. I'm not interested in NPCs. They are usually created to facilitate game play.

1. How long has your group played the New TFT?

2. What is the rough break down of PCs with respect to race? (i.e. 50% human, 25% elf, etc,)

3. What is the rough break down of attribute totals for the PCs in your group? (i.e. 80% 32-35, 15% 36-38, 3% 39-40, 41 or greater 2%)

4. What is the highest attribute total among the PCs in your group and what character type/race applies to them?

The reason that I ask these questions is that from an original TFT player's perspective, over the course of 15 years, we had many characters with attribute totals approaching 50 and a much smaller number above that. However, it took years of playing to get them there and it was challenging as a GM to keep them challenged while still accommodating characters with lower attribute totals. I'm interested in how the new rules with respect to EXP cost toward attributes and now talents/spells is affecting the overall break down of PCs.

Shostak · 03-19-2022, 03:01 PM

The current campaigns I've been GMing are about 4 years old, but we've taken some breaks to play some other games. Most of the original characters (all human but one) are now 36 points, with a couple up at 38 (human). XP/session is usually between 30 and 70.

Steve Plambeck · 03-19-2022, 06:31 PM

I haven't had a group since Legacy came out, but Shostak's example is what I would have predicted -- and feared. Only gaining on average 1 Attribute Point per year per character is terribly slow. Used to dole out the same thing, 30 to 70 XP per game session, and when we played once a month PCs would gain 2 to 3 new Attribute points per year. And visible character progress is surely supposed to be part of the fun.

For this reason alone I could never use the Legacy rules as written.

phiwum · 03-19-2022, 07:23 PM

I dole out anywhere from 50 to 100XP, occasionally a bit more. The oldest characters in my campaign are 36pt, maybe one 37pt. We started playing back in late August, 2020, with a few breaks last summer.

Shostak · 03-19-2022, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Plambeck

Only gaining on average 1 Attribute Point per year per character is terribly slow.

I admit to being parsimonious with XP and won’t be surprised if others’ games feature faster-paced advancement.

Bill_in_IN · 03-20-2022, 10:48 AM

Thanks for the replies but I would still like to see more.

After running an EXP vs. Attribute increase comparison between the original TFT and the New TFT, the difference couldn't be more obvious. I know that they wanted to combat attribute bloat promoted by the original system but, it obvious that they have replaced it with attribute stall and talent at stalled level bloat. To me, neither is truly desirable but, at least, I new how to manage it within the original system.

In the original system, it took a total of 625 EXP to get to an attribute total of 36. This is where both systems are fairly equal because in the new TFT it takes 700 EXP. From that point on it diverges at such an large rate that the new system makes the original system non-existent on the same chart after an attribute total of 40. Per the EXP award suggestions given in the new ITL, it is almost impossible for a character to increase attributes after that point. While I agree that it should be difficult to increase attributes as their total increases, the new TFT system overcompensated to the point that it is completely stifling with respect to overall character development. A character must start at a high IQ at the expense of ST and DX (which severely impacts survival probability) so that they can increase their IQ to allow their final goal of development. This results in a character that is very talented but so weak that they can only combat the small nuisance creatures with no chance of every improving upon that situation.

Later on, I can go into details to support what I said above. Yes, I realize that in the new system one can spend EXP on Attributes and talents/spells as opposed to just attributes like the original system. In order to keep the game fun with respect to character development and not stifling, It would seem that a better medium Medium EXP/Attribute cost system could have been developed. Perhaps that would be a good topic for the House Rules Forum but, I would like to see more discussion here before I take it there.

In the end, I assert that the attribute bloat of the original system was traded for Attribute stall and talent/spell bloat at an IQ cap. Neither is a good thing for the game system with respect to character development and the fun aspect that it provided within TFT. However, I did know how to deal with it in the original system and it didn't have such a stifling quality to it.

TippetsTX · 03-20-2022, 11:24 AM

Check out several threads in the House Rules Forum for alternate XP schemes.

Here's mine...
https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160193

(Replacing the default schedule was the first change I made, but you'll notice that it evolved during those first couple years)

03-19-2022, 11:25 AM	#1
Bill_in_IN Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Indiana	Question about character attribute totals and break downs among PCs? With the new TFT Legacy system being fairly young (<4years), I am curious about the general break down of attribute totals of playing characters. The numbers for which I'm asking need not be exact. Rough estimates are enough for this conversation. I'm not interested in NPCs. They are usually created to facilitate game play. 1. How long has your group played the New TFT? 2. What is the rough break down of PCs with respect to race? (i.e. 50% human, 25% elf, etc,) 3. What is the rough break down of attribute totals for the PCs in your group? (i.e. 80% 32-35, 15% 36-38, 3% 39-40, 41 or greater 2%) 4. What is the highest attribute total among the PCs in your group and what character type/race applies to them? The reason that I ask these questions is that from an original TFT player's perspective, over the course of 15 years, we had many characters with attribute totals approaching 50 and a much smaller number above that. However, it took years of playing to get them there and it was challenging as a GM to keep them challenged while still accommodating characters with lower attribute totals. I'm interested in how the new rules with respect to EXP cost toward attributes and now talents/spells is affecting the overall break down of PCs. Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 03-19-2022 at 01:26 PM.

03-19-2022, 03:01 PM	#2
Shostak Join Date: Oct 2015 Location: New England	Re: Question about character attribute totals and break downs among PCs? The current campaigns I've been GMing are about 4 years old, but we've taken some breaks to play some other games. Most of the original characters (all human but one) are now 36 points, with a couple up at 38 (human). XP/session is usually between 30 and 70. __________________ * * * * Anthony Shostak myriangia.wordpress.com

03-19-2022, 06:31 PM	#3
Steve Plambeck Join Date: Jun 2019	Re: Question about character attribute totals and break downs among PCs? I haven't had a group since Legacy came out, but Shostak's example is what I would have predicted -- and feared. Only gaining on average 1 Attribute Point per year per character is terribly slow. Used to dole out the same thing, 30 to 70 XP per game session, and when we played once a month PCs would gain 2 to 3 new Attribute points per year. And visible character progress is surely supposed to be part of the fun. For this reason alone I could never use the Legacy rules as written. __________________ "I'm not arguing. I'm just explaining why I'm right."

03-19-2022, 07:23 PM	#4
phiwum Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Boston area	Re: Question about character attribute totals and break downs among PCs? I dole out anywhere from 50 to 100XP, occasionally a bit more. The oldest characters in my campaign are 36pt, maybe one 37pt. We started playing back in late August, 2020, with a few breaks last summer.

03-20-2022, 10:48 AM	#6
Bill_in_IN Join Date: Dec 2021 Location: Indiana	Re: Question about character attribute totals and break downs among PCs? Thanks for the replies but I would still like to see more. After running an EXP vs. Attribute increase comparison between the original TFT and the New TFT, the difference couldn't be more obvious. I know that they wanted to combat attribute bloat promoted by the original system but, it obvious that they have replaced it with attribute stall and talent at stalled level bloat. To me, neither is truly desirable but, at least, I new how to manage it within the original system. In the original system, it took a total of 625 EXP to get to an attribute total of 36. This is where both systems are fairly equal because in the new TFT it takes 700 EXP. From that point on it diverges at such an large rate that the new system makes the original system non-existent on the same chart after an attribute total of 40. Per the EXP award suggestions given in the new ITL, it is almost impossible for a character to increase attributes after that point. While I agree that it should be difficult to increase attributes as their total increases, the new TFT system overcompensated to the point that it is completely stifling with respect to overall character development. A character must start at a high IQ at the expense of ST and DX (which severely impacts survival probability) so that they can increase their IQ to allow their final goal of development. This results in a character that is very talented but so weak that they can only combat the small nuisance creatures with no chance of every improving upon that situation. Later on, I can go into details to support what I said above. Yes, I realize that in the new system one can spend EXP on Attributes and talents/spells as opposed to just attributes like the original system. In order to keep the game fun with respect to character development and not stifling, It would seem that a better medium Medium EXP/Attribute cost system could have been developed. Perhaps that would be a good topic for the House Rules Forum but, I would like to see more discussion here before I take it there. In the end, I assert that the attribute bloat of the original system was traded for Attribute stall and talent/spell bloat at an IQ cap. Neither is a good thing for the game system with respect to character development and the fun aspect that it provided within TFT. However, I did know how to deal with it in the original system and it didn't have such a stifling quality to it. Last edited by Bill_in_IN; 03-20-2022 at 10:55 AM.

03-20-2022, 11:24 AM	#7
TippetsTX Join Date: Sep 2018 Location: North Texas	Re: Question about character attribute totals and break downs among PCs? Check out several threads in the House Rules Forum for alternate XP schemes. Here's mine... https://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=160193 (Replacing the default schedule was the first change I made, but you'll notice that it evolved during those first couple years) __________________ “No matter how subtle the wizard, a knife between the shoulder blades will seriously cramp his style.” -Vladimir Taltos Last edited by TippetsTX; 03-20-2022 at 11:34 AM.